Renault, the fluffiest Velenosan cat, Athenais, a dreamy apprentice Whisper arrive, following Selene.

A few clouds populate the sky above Arx, but that is an irrelevant detail within the confines of the Empirical. There Marquis Hadrian Mazetti may be found with a plate of unsalted crackers laid out in his lap as he busies himself with trying to work saliva into what is very likely a parched mouth. The arrival of guests is met by a cheerful smile and a mouth that seems dry at best, "Welcome, welcome, come in and enjoy the re...crackers". He sets his little plate of crackers aside and quickly surges to his feet. He strikes a tall, lean figure as he ascends to his full height. A broad, charcoal-whitened smile fixes itself across his sharp features as he lifts each of his hands, only for them to spread out in a welcoming gesture, "Please, take a seat and relax. A small turn-out this evening which was, frankly, expected. Make yourselves comfortable and we shall begin the discussion... the stipulation that one must bring their own beverages... is it simply good manners on the side of the visitor or is it clearly intended to prevent the less fortunate from attending?"

Unsalted crackers: it's no one's idea of a delicious meal, unless the subject in question is five. Possibly five and three-quarters, thank you. The issue is not one which Selene cares to argue with or about, given she has little to contribute on the worthiness of such a meal. As a Whisper, she would never complain in the first place, gliding in and offering her hands in greeting to Hadrian. "Thank you," she replies, singing warmly in greeting. "Relaxation sounds precisely the order of the evening. We shall endeavour to be nothing but languid." Her fan hangs at her wrist, swinging lightly to and fro.

Waldemai taps the big bucket of ale he brought. "Well, I'm not sure what stipulation means," he says, "But if it means what I think it does, well, you can't order someone to do something and then say he did it because he's got good manners. I mean, he might." He pauses to refresh himself with a dip of ale. "But you can't tell if it's manners or orders."

Alessia drops Southern Thunder.

Alessia has joined the a cluster of couches around a low table.

Waldemai's answer earns a glance from Hadrian and, for whatever reason, there's a look of surprise on the Marquis' features. He blinks once, twice, and then simply offers up a quiet, "Huh". His eyes flutter for a moment and then he promptly looks back to Selene, who upon witnessing the former Radiant, results in Hadrian offer her a deep sweep of a bow. Within that bow, as he begins to lean forward to present it, a hand rises up to artfully slip the crown from his head to prevent it tumbling away. Only when he rises up to his full height again does Hadrian remark back to her, "Your agreement is of unquestionable value, Whisper Selene. With your breathtaking presence, no doubt we will find relaxation all the greater to acquire". Only when Hadrian seats himself again does he turn his attention to Waldemai and continue with the point made by the man with the bucket, "A fair point that you make. We are quite fortunate however to have a Whisper on hand to answer the question of: can something performed as part of an order, still be considered good manners? Aren't good manners simply a result of expectations?"

Sliding from the bar stool, Alessia takes her bottle of something, and heads to the couches. "Good manners, on the part of the visitor. However is it polite on the part of the host? I'm not sure. It depends on how keen they are on their guests' presence. If someone turns up to my house and I'm ambivalent about being in their company then I don't owe them anything."

Renault, the fluffiest Velenosan cat, Athenais, a dreamy apprentice Whisper leave, following Selene.

Waldemai asks, "Well, what about hospitality? If I see someone, like my pal Arthur from Backpacks and Bracers, I'll stand him a drink. I don't expect him to buy his own for the privilege of sitting with me."

"Another fine point. Hospitality. The question itself may generate the need to inquire with the Faith," Hadrian begins with his answer as a hand extends forward and aside, gesturing toward Waldemai. He does glance toward Alessia, nodding along with her own comment in turn. Eventually his harlequin eyes dance between the pair before he continues, "It makes me wonder then if the answer lies somewhere in the middle. Which is why I mention the Faith of the Pantheon... is it good manners if it is an expectation? Is it an expectation if Guest Right is not extended? If Guest Right is extended, then does the onus of action lie upon the shoulders of the host to provide refreshments to their guests? Does it all come down to Guest Right?"

"Because you like the person, you'll buy him a drink." Alessia suggests, pouring a bottle into her glass. "Well no, I don't believe Guest Right is good manners. That's a question of morality more than etiquette."

"Right, but what I mean is... if Guest Right is not extended, then is the expectation that a visitor bring their own beverage? If Guest Right is provided, then it is on the shoulders of the host to provide?" Hadrian asks as a clarifying question directed at Alessia.

Waldemai dips his horn into the ale again. The philosophizing is getting deep in here. Maybe a snort of what's good for you will help him sort it out.

"Well I suppose the host will have to provide -some- drink lest the guest claims they're about to die of thirst. But it doesn't have to be a good drink." Alessia says with a wry smile.

Hadrian dips his chin along with Alessia's answer, though he leans aside to plant an elbow into the arm of his seat and his cheek comes to rest against the upraised fist as he asks with a glance to Waldemai, but inevitably looks back to Alessia, "But if Guest Right has not been extended, there is zero obligation to provide even a drop of water to a visitor. Right? But if a guest, who has received Guest Right, complains of thirst, then they must be provided that drink. So if Guest Right is _not_ extended, wouldn't their bringing their own drink be a course of good manners? Knowing full well that they will not be provided a drink, they bring one of their own? That seems like good manners, thoughtfulness, and self-preserving to me."

Waldemai wonders, "Why would you want to go someplace you're not wanted as a guest? I mean, leaving out business and diplomacy and jails and such."

"That's a... good question." Alessia looks ponderous. "But it's happened. Some people don't understand social cues enough to know when they aren't wanted." She chuckles.

"Technically you are not a guest here," Hadrian remarks with a gesture around the Empirical as his attention shifts to Waldemai. "Every day people in this city attend functions that they are not extended Guest Right to. You mention business, diplomacy, and the like? But people still attend them. Every day, in great numbers. One needn't be extended Guest Right to discuss business - I have discussed many business matters in my private study at Mazetti Manor. Only some of the time do I make it a point to extend Guest Right. There have been instances in the Empirical," and again Hadrian's hand rises up to gesture to the Empirical, "where there have been parties that arrive only for the sake of being disruptive in some poor attempt at being 'funny'. They aren't extended Guest Right for a quasi-private affair. Tonight the point was made that there would not be refreshments, yet you've arrived and participated. You even had the sense of self and... dare I say... manners to arrive without expectation of pampering. You had foresight to bring your own drink and not bother your host with fulfilling your needs. That, my friend, is an example of good manners. They aren't always codified acknowledgments of social propriety. Sometimes they are simply the actions we take that make them good manners."

Waldemai shakes his head. "I'd say it's bad manners, and I wouldn't have done it except that it would mean I'd miss the show." He doesn't seem to realize he's becoming part of the show himself this time. He points a finger at the bartender. "If you hadn't said 'BYOB,' I'd have bought my booze from you at your bar. That's the price to me of watching the debates you put on, so I'd say that's the good manners. You're giving me a show and I'm buying your booze."

"Those weren't free?" Alessia turns to the bar with raised brows. "I joke of course. The disruptive guest was going to be my next suggestion."

"Giving you a show? Nuh uh," Hadrian answers with a smile, though he seems to intentionally make himself sound as though he were echoing a petulant child, "you're giving *me* a show". He then takes up another of his crackers, bites into it with a loud and crumbling crunch, then begins the slow process of chewing it with what is likely already a rather dry mouth. He glances back to Alessia and her question earns a response from Hadrian, but it's largely unintelligible based upon the dry crackers in his dry mouth inhibiting any recognizable speech.

Waldemai thinks about it. "The disruptive guest? You mean, like the drunk blacksmith who cheers at the debates?" No one he knows would do that! Never!

"We have moved beyond the discussion. Let us return to it," Hadrian remarks with a wink cast toward Waldemai. He then sets his cracker aside, brushes his hands clean, and spreads his hands before he asks himself, "There is the second half of the question to answer. Or is the demand that guests bring their own refreshments nothing more than some attempt to mitigating the presence of the less fortunate?"

"No no, that's a fun guest." Alessia shakes her head before turning to Hadrian, raising a brow at his unintelligible response. "Right Marquis?" She chuckles before turning to Waldemai. "No, disruptive as in the type of person who knows they aren't wanted but turns up anyway in the hopes that the host's -desire- to be generous will outweigh everything else." She pauses. "Before I answer that, I may be underestimating how expensive alcohol actually is?"

Waldemai pokes at the ale. "Well, it's silver, not copper. I've got a steady job," repairing armor for the Malvici militia, "so if I want a bucket of ale I can have one. But down by the docks I'm sure there's a few who'd have trouble coming up with it."

"Oh, I know. I've not forgotten you," Hadrian remarks with a quiet chuckle directed at Waldemai. He had been, at one time, the Duke of House Malvici after all. He takes in a deep breath before his attention drifts back to Alessia, to whom he offers a faint nod of his head, "There are some who, by virtue of their lot in life, would see a requirement to bring their own refreshments to a party as an excessive expense. Which is why the charity of the nobility - and other citizens of the Compact who are of means - is such an important thing. That is why the Faith of the Pantheon's many charitable endeavors through the discipleship of Gild are such an important thing for many."

"I have no rebuttal to the need for charity." Alessia leans back against her seat, taking a deeper drink from her glass. "But then people should -want- to offer drinks to the less fortunate than out of public perception."

Waldemai nods at that. "If Princess Valencia wanted the fights to BYOB, I'd stand a fellow a few silvers so he could get in. So I don't think it would to anything to the poor, unless they had no friends, too."

Alessia's comment earns a nod from Hadrian as his smile returns again, his eyes fixed on her for the moment, "Which is more than likely why we see so many gatherings hosted without any stipulation on who may attend. That fear of public perception". Hadrian's hand returns to the arm of his chair while he considers Alessia, then Waldemai. It is the comment made by Waldemai that earns another smile from Hadrian before he answers, "So, by your own words, it would be charity that would allow for the less fortunate to attend. It would not be that less fortunate individual supporting their own presence, but another individual providing them the means". A hand lifts and claps together with its opposite as he continues, "But I think we have discussed this topic to its conclusion. Unless either of you have anything further to add, point out, or present?"

Waldemai shakes his head. "Not unless you want some of this ale. Night like this it'll go down good."

"Look who's turned around during this debate." Alessia smiles amusedly at Waldemai's offer before responding to Hadrian. "I don't currently. I think I may have been swayed to the side of charity and goodness." She smiles, turning to the smith. "Yes, I'd like some."

"Very well then," Hadrian answers with a smile as he rises up to his feet. The offer made by Waldemai earns a blank stare from Hadrian, his expression pensive for a moment. He finally offers back a faint side-to-side shake of his head and responds to the offer, "No, thank you, Master Waldemai. I do appreciate your generous offer". He then offers a bow of his head toward the smith. Then Alessia speaks up of her own willingness to take part in bucket-ale. Hadrian considers her for a moment before he clears his throat, hikes a thumb over his shoulder toward the atrium, and comments back at Waldemai, "I have a few bottles of something or another stored in my office. Thank you again for the offer, though". Then Hadrian turns and begins to make his way toward the atrium.