Tora have been dismissed.

Balian, a Templar squire, Guy, a hunting kestrel, 1 Templar Knight guards, Direhorn Jeffers, a barded Templar wargoat arrive, following Preston.

Apostate says, "Thank you all very much for coming. So as we've mentioned before, we're creating an OOC player position in orgs called Story Coordinators, and I wanted to take some time to talk about how that's going to be working in practice, and discuss GMing in general, and if we have time, how people will pursue plots, as they are all very much interlinked. Investigations needing new clues and actions were unsustainable, and it's not really a case where we can cleanly add more staff without things becoming top heavy and unmanageable either. So this is really about creating a lot more storytellers, giving players the ability to tell meaningful stories and advancing plots they feel are relevant to them, while preserving the coherence that stops the game from turning into a sandbox or a hundred different smaller minigames that lack the unifying thread that I think is vital to make them meaningful."

Apostate says, "Now, what we're going to be doing is making an overwhelming majority of plots be org-centric, and this means I absolutely have to have players that are able to help keep track of these many plot threads. What Story Coordinators are primarily doing OOCly is a) Keeping track of all the plots currently happening in their org, b) book keeping and adding plots to their org, c) seeing what plots are stalled, need GMs to advance, d) helping facilitate player involvement in their orgs with plots, and e) helping arrange storytellers to tell the stories that move the plots forward."

Brother Chester, Fudgy, a chirpy crow arrive, following Jeffeth.

Apostate says, "There are some similarities to the styles done in other games, but what story coordinators are not doing is passing judgment on whether plots are good or bad for the org. If something is too disruptive and needs to stop, that goes through staff. So they aren't really arbiters of whether a plot can or cannot start, just the people that when I go to say, the Iron Guard, and ask who is involved in a crime fighting plot, I can immediately have answers on who is involved, who still wants to get involved, and what they have been doing."

Apostate says, "Plot code itself is largely going to define 'ownership', as there are specific tags in it to show who owns the plot, who is required for the plot to advance, who is supporting, who is tangential. If say, a plot is core to a member of House Redreef, about a character's secret, and they want to involve their family and make it a redreef plot, that's very much owned by that character, and it doesn't automatically become a plot of their lieges and up the chain of lieges to become a Thrax plot."

Oura, a white-tailed eagle, Valor, a juvenile male Oakhaven Bloodhound, 2 Greenwood Tribe Blood Warriors arrive, following Thesarin.

Apostate says, "I mention this example because we just aren't going to be doing one person actions for people to advance their metaplot secret/involvement anymore. We can't support it."

Apostate says, "If we tried, the turnaround time in being fair would be something like once a year, if being optimistic."

Apostate says, "And even doing that slows everything else to a standstill, which is why we've been in the same general metaplot state for a couple years."

Apostate says, "So how people will progress their metaplot secrets and personal plots is going to be much more structured than it is now, which I think a lot of people that have felt in the dark about what to do will probably find immensely helpful, while the most aggressively forward pushing players will probably feel a bit constrained."

Apostate says, "Let me give a bit of work flow in how I see this going, since I think it's going to be the most relevant for people that aren't running orgs."

Apostate says, "In order to get GM responses to advance a personal mystery plot, a PC needs to go through a periods of collaboration and reflection that then leads to experimentation, with only the latter getting GM responses. If Bob has a mystery about shadows trying to eat him, he must spend time trying to find like minded individuals who also have had problems with voracious shadows, or have had issues with voracious furniture, or have had friendly shadows, or anything that feels tangentially related and RP with them to come to some conclusions or at least wild guesses. Then Bob needs to have a period of reflection where he makes guesses on what's going on, has his own theories, and more importantly, how this effects his personality, worldview, relationships. And then finally he can move to a period of action, where he is experimenting, and trying to find out if he is right or wrong."

Apostate says, "And this is also where Story Coordinators can come in, because all of this collaboration and reflection are going to be organized as plots, and involving other people. A character doesn't have to be -right-, in what they are thinking is going on. In fact it's usually better if they aren't. But we need to see some kind of story movement to build on it, and to actually have something to go with in an experimentation period, or else it can become uninteresting exposition that doesn't really say anything about the characters or build a compelling story."

Apostate says, "Okay, I've talked for a bit, I'll start to take questions, if you want to getinline"

Bhandn has joined the line.

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Aleksei says, "That's 'line/getinline', for folks"

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Zoey says, "If we have two questions, may we ask both when our turn comes?"

Apostate says, "Yeah sure"

Turn in line: Bhandn

Apostate says, "Okay Bhandn"

Jyri has joined the line.

Bhandn says, "What is this roughly going to look like command wise? I'm mostly trying to think of how the organization will transpire as far as actually playing it out is concerned. The plots command seems the obvious first step, but will there be more tools added over time to go with that, or am I getting too far ahead here?"

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Bhandn amends that a little. Plots and goals seem the obvious first step.

Apostate says, "Yes. I don't wanna get too much into implementation details because I need to see what lines up with us refactoring attributes to avoid tech debt (bonus points if you understand what I just said), and a lot of how the commands look would be driven because of that. But short version is at least there's going to be a command to see who story coordinators are, what -open- plots there are in an org if they are available to your character, and who to talk to. So if someone wants a plot to be basically a public signup for an org, I want that to be extremely accessible. Similarly, if someone wants to have a general, 'I need players for X' and wants a collaborative inorganic approach that's fine by me."

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Turn in line: Haakon

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Apostate says, "Okay Haakon"

Apostate says, "If someone has a follow up question to anything I said just rejoin the line."

Haakon says, "Sweet, you already answered to of mine... the remaining! 1: Do Story coordinators choose GMs for org plots?
2: Will staff be GMing the major advancements, or giving guidance to player storytellers to run org level resolution events?"

Bhandn has joined the line.

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Apostate says, "1. Generally the plot owner would be the one arranging for a GM, and just telling a story coordinator who it is. So not normally, the case where a Story Coordinator could choose a GM would probably be the depressingly frequent one of, 'I have a plot and have no idea who can act as a Storyteller for it, can you help me find one', and the SC goes around asking for help. 2. Staff will probably have their hands full GMing things that have a really wide scope, ones that effect many orgs. Like say I was going to run something like Orazio's assassination. I'd probably very quietly go to the Faith story coordinator, templar coordinator, mercy coordinator, iron guard, inquisition, etc and say, 'Hey hypothetically speaking, is there any plots going on right now that would get destroyed if a major assassination took place'. So honestly I think most major org level resolution will happen at the player level with just a sanity check from the SC to staff, because I don't think I'll have time to do more than audit."

Turn in line: Brianna

Brianna says, "How will economic endeavors (e.g. bringing new materials to market) that used to be handled as actions be handled now? That's something I've been wondering."

Haakon says, "Thank you."

Apostate says, "My goal right now is to add almost everything to do with domains to automated commands. It's been a goal for some time, but almost any action that was more specific outcome driven (expand the domain, develop a new material, find bling), really could be handled with automation, since it's not really needing me to write compelling stories unless something goes horribly wrong. In the short term, it's fine if these are org plots until the automation comes, and if like 5 people say, 'We want to make a new material', have a scene about design or whatever, I'll probably just do a simple roll and resource cost from a plot RFR about it."

Turn in line: Zara

Zara says, "So my question relates to the collaboration period of advancing personal mystery plots. I love this idea. However, I know some personal mysteries can be more on the 'morally dubious' side and I'm concerned about the prospect of someone who starts trying to learn more about their own secret by trying to get people involved so they can essentially discover things together - only to start getting increased side eyes and whispers flying around about they're not to be trusted, before they've even really gotten started. I know there are rules about spreading secrets without involving the secret owner, but I still think there may be some confusion there and even if the personal who owns the story is involved in the spreading of the secret, it may stifle the discovery process if they're spending all their time trying to quash suspicions. So I guess my question is, how do people still feel comfortable getting people involved in something if they fear it backfiring on them?""

Apostate says, "So personal story arcs are going to be handled ruthlessly to an extent that squelches organic Rp about it, and while I'm not thrilled about it, I think it's unfortunately necessary. If Frank's secret is about him having flashbacks to being the Demon King of Uth'tal in a past life, and he adds a few friends to his personal secret plot, I just won't allow someone talking OOCly about it as a reason for the Faith to excommunicate him, the Crown to banish him, or the Inquisition to torture him to death. While it pains me to ever step in say, 'sorry, you just can't RP about this, it's too disruptive', I will do that if it's just too destructive to a storyline that spread wildly. Now I would beg for people to not put me in that position, but as a general rule, we're taking a collaborative approach and if it's too dangerous to invite people onto personal plots, it just undermines the ability for people to be inclusive to a point that I find destructive. Or to put another way, if Zara has a Secretly Murdered People Because Of Her Secret plot, people have to be specifically added by her on the plot to do an arc around it in a way that could result in GM action."

Turn in line: Drake

Drake says, "Ok first of all I appreciate you saying there will be a way to see who all story coordinators are, because that was one of my questions. That'd be really helpful. (a staff/all to see who all the staffers are would be great too). Now I have 2 questions - I asked this on channel a bit ago but now I think this is the right place to get an answer. Some orgs have story coordinators and some do not. I'm in a real small org... so I'm not sure we get one - at least, we do not have one now. So how is that gonna work? For orgs that are smaller - like the chain right now with Wrymguard, or even Telmar and under, does it makes sense to assign a story coordinator for a 'parent' org that handles the entire chain on down? Would one coordinator handle more than one org? Do even small orgs get a coordinator? Would hate for personal plots on my little team to stall out due to no coordinator.
Second question - I have a PRP that's a bit stalled out right now because I wasn't sure how you wanted combat to be handled... should I just lump forward with that (since it was already approved but I was a little gunshy about what's the deal with combat PRPs right now)"

Willen arrives, following Lou.

Apostate says, "Someone has to step up to do it. I'm going to go through orgs and try to make sure each has one and ask for volunteers, but speaking frankly, unless I have someone to talk to in the org about what plots are going on in it, I can't spend time doing it. I just do not have the resources to talk to every member about who is being left out of plots and who is involved and what they need. I have to have a point of contact for that and a player to do that work. So if an org wants to have me GMing for them, I need a story coordinator to talk to. I don't personally mind if members of a smaller org would -like- to make a plot one for a parent org to get more involvement. if the wyrmguards have some plot about a huge bandit attack, and want to involve telmar players and put that plot as a telmar org plot, go nuts, then all the other vassals and whoever can join in. But they can't go to a telmar SC and say, 'we're just doing a wyrmguard plot for wyrmguard players only but I need you to coordinate this for us', no, they probably will have enough to do.

Gonna talk about new GMing rules in another cal event, probably tomorrow. A whole lot of rules around checks. A lot."

Turn in line: Zoey

Zoey says, "My first question... For those of us whose secrets are currently written such that they require us to submit solo @actions, what will we need to do instead now to access them?

My second question... How do we go about getting GM attention for the Experimentation phase? Will that be worked into goals/rfr?

My third question... If there are already a bunch of different people involved in a personal plot, but it seems that there is not an appropriate Org to which said plot can be attached, how do we handle that?"

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Apostate says, "You'll need to create a personal +plot with a pitch, invite at least 2 other people to work on with it, and then after talking to other people with similar secrets/opinions about your secret/personal relationship relevance to it, and then periods of reflection about it and what it means for them and what they think is going on, then have GM'd events moving it forward on screen, or submit RFRs based on their collaboration and reflection and experimentation to draw conclusions. On how to get GMing, ideally player Storytellers working with you or your org. On third, org is not required, that's just the most convenient way people can find other people, but there are a LOT of secret orgs out there. Like there actually IS a secret org that lines up with Zoey's secret pretty much exactly, and I doubt you've ever heard of it, which is no fault of yours but I mention as an example because until now there really hasn't been an impetus to find other people with similar secrets and get involved in them. There's virtually nothing I've written secret wise that was not intended to be collaborated on. Sitll, if someone has like 5 friends all on a personal plot without an org, that is okay, after they've come up with a theory of, 'I think this is why this is happening, and now we want to test it', that's when they can nudge staff if they can't find a player storyteller."

Turn in line: Kiera

Kiera hms "So to use your example what if we want to talk to people within other orgs who have issues with shadow furniture as part of your investigation how do you do that . are plots restricted to members of the org they're based on

Apostate says, "They are not restricted, no. If someone is a member of the secret Happy Murder Family org, and someone shows an exceptional interest in murder, they could be invited into the plot and that would be an excellent way to justify them later joining the org. Or maybe they are a murder individualist and do not wish to join, and that's fine, but they could be involved in the plot. That's really up to the plot creator and what they are willing to deal with. Personally I hope most things are very accessible, but I'm someone that GM'd for like a 200 person scene of the siege of Arx, like I get my tolerance for a lot of people is different and if someone is doing something for them and their friends, that's fine. What will probably happen quite often is 3 different people with shadow furniture secrets will find each other, and add each other to their own personal plots, and there will be natural overlap."

Turn in line: Georgine

Georgine says, "I just have a quick one. How does the new system interact with goals? As far as personal plot/character development goes, what would be the differentiation and application of those two categories? Is the personal plot represented by goals that then lead to actions? Sorry if I'm being redundant here."

2 Redreef Wardens arrives, following Griffin.

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Apostate says, "I'm probably getting ahead of myself here in answering that, but really goals can very much be about personal plots. Let me give difference usage- say Bob has a 'I really want to know why shadows are trying to eat me' goal, and he also has a 'Let's test if these shadows eat furniture' plot with other shadow furniture people. Bob could goal/rfr learning something about why the shadows are trying to eat him, as a mark of say, his reflection stage, or his collaboration stage, showing his progression. Or after dealing with the shadow furniture, he could goal/rfr, 'well, after messing with this, Bob really thinks it just is trying to eat redheads, so maybe I was a ginger in my past life or something? That's my theory', and at that point staff would probably give him something to go off on for future reference. A plot rfr would be a response to something specifically happening to the group, like 'they all tried to see if the shadow furniture would eat a well done steak', and as a communal response."

Turn in line: Mabelle

Mabelle says, "With regards to personal plots, and I'm sorry if it was asked in another way, I do not feel like I got my answer - what if it is not a right or wrong question? Or what if someone already figured out their secret and how it reflects upon them for the most part and its actually more of a 'now what'? assuming actually revealing the secret is not the endgame. What id you do not know what the next step is?""

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Apostate says, "What I most need to happen there is for a character to take a -guess- based on roleplay. I don't care if it's the wrong guess, just for there to be RP in some fashion that shows a character is exploring the secret in ways or what it means about them. I need some kind of movement first. Like say someone has a past life, and found out, 'I was the Demon King', and they are saying, 'okay, now what, what does that mean to me'. I would just want them to say, 'okay so maybe that means I'm destined to act like X or Y', that could be totally wrong, but I really want to be writing -responses- to some kind of belief, however right or wrong it is, than trying to just respond in the broadest of ways. It's several orders of magnitude more difficult to respond to a very open ended 'I don't know', than it is to respond to even the most mild, 'well, okay, let me try X'"

Turn in line: Ian

Ian says, "If I, hypothetically, have a character secret that, if shared, is almost certain to out another character's secret, what do I do? Because my (hypothetical) current approach of 'just don't tell anyone ever' probably isn't sustainable."

Apostate says, "No, it's not. Ideally in that case then you pretty much would have to collaborate with that character and be on their plot and vice versa. If they aren't active, then you can. just barrel on ahead"

Turn in line: Mirk

Mirk says, "I have 2 questions.
1) I'm curious about plotlines that aren't really tailored to any specific org? Say something involving a group of people that are in different orgs and don't involve the wider orgs? Would that be more case-by-case basis, or...?
2) Related, should we be focusing on getting our ongoing plotlines transferred into the plot system, even if they're currently not? Do we need to worry about past beats in that plot, etc.?"

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Apostate says, "1. Case by case, but I do not see player Storytellers as org specific at all. I imagine a lot will be, just because it's natural to want to GM for their friends and people they know well, but hopefully they can find player storytellers that can GM for not org specific ones. For plots, whether personal or org, I am almost certainly going to restrict staff involvement to once per game episode (once per chapter will be too slow). 2. Yeah, I want everything in plot system, I don't really care about past plot beats too much as long as someone is there that's familiar that I can ask about it, but I probably won't GM for something that would need me to research it heavily. I just don't have time and can't do it."

Turn in line: Liara

Liara says, "My question was covered so here's a big tangent. Is the setting as a whole, NPCs and all, going to progress to a point where open discussion of magic and other weird stuff is accepted? At the moment, a lot of that happens behind closed doors in planned meetings, not via organic day-to-day RP. This ranges from personal things to big picture stuff like the Horned God."

Liara says, "(and if not how can we make that happen more organically?)"

Apostate says, "Eventually yes but there will be very strong thematic reasons to be careful in the short term. I realize it's a challenge, but there's a reason I write all the emits I do with vaguely plausible mundane explanations rather than the supernatural, and that's the style I'd really want PC leaders to embrace. Talking about the Skal'dajans being exceptionally dangerous is fine, talking about them raining bolts of fire down is going to get weird looks in the short term. There will be a period when discussion of magic and weird stuff is accepted, but that's some almost certain story arcs of periods when it becomes -less- acceptable in the short term, and it's hard for me to talk about with a lot of spoilers of likely outcomes, that depend upon player action."

Turn in line: Cirroch

Cirroch Okay. So my first question has been answered. Thanks Zoey!
Second question, if we have a plot that follows our secret and resolving it. Do you want us to hold off on submitting them right now?

Apostate says, "No, it's fine to, just you're going to need to coordinate with other players long before you talk to staff past the initial pitch to get the plot created."

Turn in line: Alistair

Alistair says, "How should SCs handle possible conflicts of interest between their OOC role and their possible IC role. I know SCs dont have to be apart of an Org to be the SC for them, but if they are, what if there is a plot that ICly goes against them? Should such plots be handled directly by staff, or are you expecting the SC to be able to manage keeping everything separate? This question is possibly less for SCs and more for people looking to do plots."

Apostate says, "I generally want SCs to be members of orgs they are coordinating for because it's too difficult to keep track of otherwise, but SCs are very distinct from Storytellers, who are not org specific. Story Coordinators are primarily book keepers but what could happen there is the owner of the plot is not comfortable talking to the story coordinator about their plot, because of the direct conflict. If either the SC or plot owner isn't comfortable, then yeah go to staff on a case by case."

Turn in line: Khanne

Khanne says, "a lot of others have asked portions of what my first question was, so, it's mostly just a clarification. One hundred percent hypothetical, asking for a friend... Say you already found out you have a past life, you've had story/actions/GM'd scenes/clues/etc. about this or relating to it, so there isn't any "what now?" sort of arc. There are related things that you have involved others in but without directly talking of your past life. You don't want to drop the story and just not do anything with it anymore. You feel there is still things you can benefit from in it, but others probably not as much to get involved in plot... Can you still do goals and rfrs for those truly singular things? And can you have some sort of solo rp that leads to the rfr or prps?Or do you just really and truly have to convince someone or multiple someones to work with you even if they will get no 'reward' for doing so?

Second question.. I forgot because life interrupted me and now it is my turn. If I remember, I will get back in line."

Apostate says, "Yes, absolutely. Most of these secrets are really about influencing who someone is a character. That's not ever really done. That's a reflection on a character's relationships, personality and beliefs, and those can change based on catalysts in RP. So if someone has a plot thread that they feel was fully explored, they still are going to have interactions that based on that is changing what they feel about someone or something, or just who they are. Those are still exactly the kind of things that can be RFR'd, just to denote personal progress, even if it's not asking staff for more than a stat gain or xp as a reflection of their personal growth, unless they develop a new belief that they want to start testing out. Let me clarify something, I only want hard requirements on collaboration and reflection and experimentation when it's a RFR requested staff write lore or specific GM'd responses for them, when they are trying to provoke a response, move a storyline forward and get something dramatic. That's pretty distinct from people wanting to do a thing to just do a thing."

Turn in line: Jeffeth

Jeffeth says in Rex'alfar, "I'm sorry I'm not sure if I fully understood the answer of how people of say more dubious secrets, plots, etc, have more protection against consequence. In your example of Frank and the Demon King of Uth'tal you mentioned you wouldn't allow 'someone talking OOCly about it' as a reason for consequences, etc. Can you address if they are IC? Like for example if a character makes an IC mistake and probably shares more than they should IC. Should this just not be RP'd about?

Are there any plans to shift theme in a way that these factions are not so at odds? It sounds like collaboration for people to get involved is going to be paramount and we want to give grace to people needing to be more vocal about things that may be darker, is there any plans or way to shift theme so that there is more forgiveness and grace that can be given IC or do we just need to work on an OOC culture of encouraging everyone to overlook things that may have been an IC mistake to share, but reactions to it could be disruptive/consequential."

Jeffeth says, "I'm sorry I'm not sure if I fully understood the answer of how people of say more dubious secrets, plots, etc, have more protection against consequence. In your example of Frank and the Demon King of Uth'tal you mentioned you wouldn't allow 'someone talking OOCly about it' as a reason for consequences, etc. Can you address if they are IC? Like for example if a character makes an IC mistake and probably shares more than they should IC. Should this just not be RP'd about?

Are there any plans to shift theme in a way that these factions are not so at odds? It sounds like collaboration for people to get involved is going to be paramount and we want to give grace to people needing to be more vocal about things that may be darker, is there any plans or way to shift theme so that there is more forgiveness and grace that can be given IC or do we just need to work on an OOC culture of encouraging everyone to overlook things that may have been an IC mistake to share, but reactions to it could be disruptive/consequential."

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Apostate says, "Let me try to get more into specifics since this is going to be a difficult one to define. If Frank RP's about this in public, so people avoid him because they do not want to be associated with the Demon King of Uth'tal, I am not going to police that and have no interest in policing that or shutting down organic rp about it. If someone thinks Frank's green eyes are a reflection of him being a Demon King because OOCly they know about the chatter there, and then want the Faith to execute him, that's not in the cards. Anything that would have a PVP type outcome would have to be cleared specifically with staff and it's almost always going to be a no unless it's disruptive to the point it threatens theme or multiple other story lines. So basically, organic RP can't lead to a GM'd outcome that's negative for a player without some overwhelming backing.

And yes, but that's a long, long, long way off. I hate talking about long term plans for the game's story, but that would be season 4, and after all planned systems are fully done, not next one in season 3, when magic is an active, visible thing."

Turn in line: Ciro

Ciro says, "My questions got covered so I'm good."

Turn in line: Teague

Teague says, "I have a question about the size of org related to the story coordinators. I have three more players joining my house shortly, working on getting their concept done. I would love to step up and make sure we can grow. Also, interact with the plots being passed around the grid. Is such a small player base going to be allowed to have a story coordinator? If so, how does one apply to be one?"

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Apostate says, "Yeah I honestly would not care if someone labeled themselves as a story coordinator for an org of 1 person, provided that the plots they are running then invited in at least a couple other people that for some reason haven't joined the org. My cutoff for me responding to a plot is 3 people. Which is still a world of difference from responding individually to 600 people every couple of months."

Turn in line: Ember

Ember says, "1. To get people's expectations on the same page, are you able to ballpark how far along all of this is from theory to execution? Like, planning is done but coding is needed, or twenty percent along, or 'I keep having new ideas for features and Tehom messages me back with photos of an ever growing pyramid of empty jugs of Crown Royal?' 2. Are there any easy mistakes you anticipate seeing from SCs once this all goes live, and anything you want to specifically warn people NOT to do well ahead of time?"

Frost, a Maelstrom Forest Cat leaves, following Lore.

Tamorin, a bubbly Whisper apprentice, Evensong, a twittering songbird arrive, following Anisha.

Apostate says, "1. I plan to start taking the preparation requests for the Skal'dajan crisis next week and start running GM events for it after New year's. I plan to publish all the 'This is how you GM' guides within the next couple weeks for player Story tellers, and hopefully be a point where people are able to use coded tools to find storytellers, story coordinators and plots by the time the Eurusi crisis is done. A lot of this I'll have to code myself and I'm not in Tehom's league by a laughable margin so it'll be slower than I like.
2. There's a lot I am worried about. People getting posessive over ownership, not being sure what plots fit what orgs and, people having trouble with the inscrutable plot commands until I make them more user friendly. A lot I'll have to approach as it happens based on how often things are a problem, because it's easy to see problem points but not how much I need to factor it comparatively"

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Turn in line: Pasquale

Pasquale says, "My questions: 1) What if a player wants to bypasses all the above steps about pursuing personal secrets by getting a mate to run a prp about it straight away? Is that allowable?

2) Will it be acceptable to make an ooc post saying "I'm looking for contacts relating to (insert secret here)" as finding people with the same secret is difficult otherwise. (or looking for a gm for insert secret here.) Which board would be appropriate if so.

3) Is there a proper way to tell two players that they have similar secrets? For example my alts both know people with the same secret so I know that playerone and playertwo would benefit from meeting and rp'ing about it. Because I dont know ic'ly I cant facilitate this in character. Can I still tell them?

4) What happens when you have several people with very similar secrets (and therefore all required) involved in a plot and one of them is unavailable for whatever reason. Does that mean the plot can't continue?

5) You made an example of taking a plot up to the lieges level to get more participation. What happens if their lieges find out about it and get involved (thus exploding the group size beyond management)? Are we allowed to refuse?"

Apostate says, "1. Yes if they don't need staff interaction at all on it to answer questions. 2. If the player doesn't mind it being ooc knowledge sure, and they don't out anyone else. 3. This one I'm wary of, and I'm okay with it between players that have really good rapport but I REALLY do not want to get brought into this going wrong and having to arbitrate around what player characters don't know and know so yes but be very careful with this. 4. Generally, a plot should only have one person that is required cast, as it is about them. I'm fine if it has multiples, but it's pretty firm, I'm not going to be dropping someone from being 'required' once they are marked that without a really, really good reason without that player's consent. So I generally would rather have say, overlapping plots with one person marked as required on each and generally the players going in with mutual advancement- ie, a PRP can act as plot beats for any number of plots. 5. What can happen in these cases is people make different, associated plots. Like for example, someone has a PRP around stirring up Abandoned attacks in their march. Their liege finds out and wants a plot around weeding out suspicious prodigals from their duchy. Sure, fine, these are tangentially related but not the same thing, but yeah a liege can't say, 'you need to invite me to your personal secret arc'. No, at that point if they have a really compelling reason they have to go to staff to be involved."

Turn in line: Alrigo

Alrigo says, "Q1. For Org Storytellers, will they be getting a list of what their ongoing org plots are from staff? I think I know them for my org and I could do a call out, but I also could be book keeping the wrong thing, directing people onto plots the org are involved in but aren't actually tied into the org's metaplot, or letting a few things slip through.

Q2. If GMing for a plots that is someone's secret. After the secret/plot ownergoes through the steps of calibration earlier outlined. The 'what next' would then be handled by staff via rfr?"

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Apostate says, "1. If they are staff created, yes. If they are player driven, no, the players involved have to go to their story coordinators and have them added to the org (there's an org/plot command). Story coordinators can and probably should just generally ask if plots want to be added to the org, but that's up to players. Please don't go to org members and ask them if their secret you know oocly should be an org plot unless they have suggested they want that.

2. 'What next' should almost always have some player guess as what that should be, based on their interactions with other PCs and story outcomes. Staff, generally speak, should never be in a position of brainstorming blind about player plots. We have too much to do. So it should never be a 'what next', but a, 'so here's what we are thinking' or 'here is what we want to try'."

Turn in line: Jyri

Jyri says, "1st question touches upon the amount of work involved. Is there going to be a limit to /rfring plots? Or a limit to how many plots to be involved in? How do you see the work load going down, from shifting from actions to plots, if plots still ask for GM responses eventually (when you say GM response, I'm assuming that means staff response) - how is it easier for you? And the 2nd - will AP change, will it be used for /rfr like actions, or lower the amount, or will that stay the same?"

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Apostate says, "Once per game episode, probably. Short term probably work load will be significantly worse than a permanent 'admin break', long term it'll be significantly better, not even counting the amount of automation I'd be adding. I don't like AP as a gatekeeper for gm responses, I hate mixing an IC and OOC currency, it's bad design so I will be moving away from that."

Turn in line: Adrienne

Adrienne says, "Hi! I'm trying to wrap my head around the creative vs. adminstrative functions of an SC and how much is being delegated down to them from staff:

1) If +plot/pitch will still be the entry point to creating a plot, who will be responsible for reviewing plot/pitches? Staff, SCs, or both? Put another way, will SCs have any responsibility or opportunity to answer the question posed by the plot request or is that primarily in the hands of the player and their GM/player storyteller?

2) On the flip side, could SCs ever review and reward +plot/rfs?3) Will any resources exist for SCs to better understand game lore as they are helping to monitor and guide the plotlines going on in their org?

4) Could SCs declare a plot dead? (eg, a key PC goes inactive).

5) When an SC ghosts or if they're struggling, what would you see as the etiquette for the org assigning a new one?"

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Apostate says, "1. Current implementation of plot/pitch is bad, but it's what I got until I fix it. Short term, still me. Long term definitely not me. Jfc not me. Yes that will probably be entirely different with a stage and then review by other players based on who they want to involve.

2.SCs would only be involved in rewards in so much as something could impact an -org- significantly that an ST overlooks. For example, 5 different Storytellers run different plots for an org all based around beating back bandits. An SC could then tell staff, 'so we have REALLY beaten back the bandits here with these different ones, and the individual different notes by the different Storytellers doesn't really cover that, can staff do it'. Sure fine. But plot specific rewards would always be handled by the Storyteller, whether staff or player.

4. In so much that if a staffer says, 'Hey what's happening with the Bamboozle Plot' and the SC says, 'everyone involved quit, it's inactive'. I really need to emphasize this. I do not want as staff to be investigating the status of plots and whether they are active, dead, or waiting on staff. That's on the players in the plot and the SC.

5. +req 'Could we make Sally an SC for the Happypants Org, Phil hasn't responded to plot pitches for 2 weeks'. Done. I'm never going to wait on an SC, it's too active a thing."

Turn in line: Raymesin

Raymesin says in Nox'alfar, "Will there be a way for SCs to help their people find others with similar/linked secrets if they don't know of anyone personally, i.e. referring to staff, etc.?"

Raymesin says in Nox'alfar, "Will there be a way for SCs to help their people find others with similar/linked secrets if they don't know of anyone personally, i.e. referring to staff, etc.?"

Raymesin says, "Will there be a way for SCs to help their people find others with similar/linked secrets if they don't know of anyone personally, i.e. referring to staff, etc.?"

Apostate says, "Langcode is a hell of a drug. Short term no unfortunately, long term probably more focused on the -player- than the SCs. I want to make it easier for players to find other people for RP, and I think it would probably be adding an unnecessary intermediary step to make it easier for SCs to find. On the other hand, more senior storytellers being able to see sheets if granted permission by players would put them in a collaborative position there."

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Turn in line: Drake

Scylla has joined the line.

Drake says, "Hey, I'm back, had a follow up now from other stuff I've seen said.
So I'm getting the feeling based on what you've said so far about theme that you have a vision on the 'macro' level - that is, you've got a lot of major plot beats planned out in advance that are setting-as-a-whole, and those seem to be... largely set in stone to some degree, aka, this is what is going to happen in Season 3... etc.
But on the micro level, vis a vis individual player secret plots, it's too much to have a centralized vision here... this is mostly up to individual players or their smaller orgs to persue, and to self-author to some degree. So is there a path for players' plots to impact the macro plot? Do these things talk to each other?"

Eirene has joined the line.

Mayir has joined the line.

Apostate says, "On the macro level, I tend to change things pretty dramatically based on player action (ie season 1 ending with a battle against the Silence wasn't what I expected, and I thought the King would die and the Nox would be exterminated), but it's probably most accurate to say I have a number of different viable possibilities that I consider, but there's some that are just too far out of player reach for reasons that are hard to say without spoilers, from ones that most players would agree (ending poverty forever), to ones that aren't intuitive (make magic acceptable publicly in the short term). Like an example for one outcome that players would probably not expect- I'm not married to the survival of the Compact versus different polities existing. I've considered outcomes there for what stories to tell if the Compact falls. I'm not really invested either way, and that would depend upon player decision making during major stories.

On the micro question yes, but it can be hard to distinguish those well. Like is a plot for Wyrmguard a microplot? Is one for all the Oathlands? My general feeling is that we have to define macro vs micro scope by the amount of orgs it impacts. I'm fine with a story that starts between 3 friends going up the ladder to effecting a fealty without needing much staff input at all, but once it effects the entire continent that is with staff, and permanent effects to the world entire is through me."

Turn in line: Ian

Ian says, "So I've got a long, LONG list of +plots that I'm involved with. Most of these are from one-shot PRPs and are quite old. Would it be possible to include a command where I could set some on that list as 'Ian is active in this' and 'Ian is not currently active in this', so when I type +plots, I only see the stuff that I might actually follow up on?"

Apostate says, "Sure. I also would rather plots get closed out in a way that's easy to sort because I don't want SCs to have to go through lists of hundreds of inactive plots either."

Turn in line: Ember

Alrigo has joined the line.

Ember says, "Forgive the made up example but let's say Valardin org has a plot about planning a war against Thrax. (I know this is a dumb example.) Alis or whoever is SC, Zara is plot owner, but as Katarina I play a huge part in the RP, have done things in the plot that would make Victus want to throw her like a lawn dart into the Darkwater, and so on, and it's all barreling along until my doctor tells me I have to stop playing Katarina or I'll die. Someone new takes her up and either has a COI between alts with this plot or just... doesn't want to be part of War on Thrax. Will there be a general idea of how to handle this for Alis and Zara and the other people who all still want to continue the plot, but the planned way to do so got derailed by a character dropping or idling for a month without explanation or...?"

Apostate says, "Would have to ask staff, and for alt conflicts like that I'd work with the players to come up with a plausible narrative work around that has the new Kat involving one character or the other and picking."

Apostate says, "Ask whenever Alrigo"

Alrigo says, "Can we get a process for seasoned STs to hand off (and maybe observe/assist) single scenes in approved PRP arcs to new STs for them to learn the process?"

Eirene has joined the line.

Apostate says, "Sure. I would be thrilled to have that happen. I'll be making a couple channels for storytellers/SCs and boards to communicate easily with each other and staff probably"

Turn in line: Khanne

Khanne says, "it was mentioned as a suggestion earlier, but, are there actual plans to have a list of current Story Coordinators easily accessible to all so that people know who to go to if they have a thing? Not just within org, but all encompassing. I get that it might be difficult to do for secret orgs, but, if say Halfshav wanted to do a plot with House Whosit, we could easily look up who to approach for that on the SC level, it would be easier than having to look up members until we found the one. Or even as a singular character who wants to involve an org they aren't really a part of with a plot"

Apostate says, "Yeah, SC is definitely gonna be public info, I'll make a command that lists them and also open plots. Honestly, I really, REALLY want new players to be able to log in and see, 'you can join X plot, and these are who to talk to IC' immediately."

Turn in line: Scylla

Adrienne has joined the line.

Scylla says, "Addressing the concern about sharing secrets and getting people with like secrets involved with each other (this is more of a suggestion than a question): Would there be a way, and would it even be half-way decent idea, to code in some kind of toggle specific to secrets that grants the player the option to flag whether theirs is open for further collaboration? For instance, when I share Scylla's secret with Bob Smith, and Bob looks at it, there's an OOC tag at the bottom that suggests Scylla's player (me) is seeking information and open to being contacted OOCly for the purposes of developing it. So Bob can now be on the lookout for relevant info and also direct them to me without feeling any hesitation, or having to break IC-only to suggest it (if they are set in that mode)."

Kiera has joined the line.

Apostate says, "Absolutely already planned. My current view is players will have toggles on their plots to share secrets/plots with invite only, or with anyone marked friends, or with all story tellers, or with everyone. And possibly other settings I haven't thoguht of yet. Longer term, I really want a system of IC gossip and findable clue objects on grid that could point towards plots and character interactions."

Turn in line: Mayir

Mayir says, "One of the things that's always made Arx special for me in the @action era, which I totally understand isn't sustainable, is that PCs can do cool things that impact the world and that interact with lore in cool ways. For instance, going out on a scouting mission and finding the eerie thing or triggering a vision that drives a character revelation. Or whatever. Is the idea that story coordinators and storytellers will have more of the metaplot keys available for them to play with and to create around? Currently, and I don't want to say this is universal, PrPs have been on the sandbox-like side of "storyteller creates the problem, resolves it within the storyteller's world, and maybe there's a Vox plot/rfr, and that's it." It can be fun, but is focused on that story without a bigger connection to the world. Like, how will magic or lore filter down through these new appointed player ranks?"

Kiera says, "so how are clues/investigations going forward how are clues/investigations going to be used if at all. i'm ine waiting for another day if that's a different topic"

Cadern has joined the line.

Luna, the Darkwater Assistant have been dismissed.

Apostate says, "So that's an excellent question, and what I very much want to avoid is the feeling of every org as a sandbox without the ability to impact the outside world and without the outside world able to impact them. That's a large reason why I want story coordinators as a position, so when players are doing things that would impact the world beyond the scope, an SC can go to staff and say, 'this is happening, it might produce effects' and for staff to run with that. That might sound contradictory to me earlier about saying that we were heavily restricting the amount of PVP that can reasonably happen, but in practice, I find these are actually prety distinct. Most playes freaking love seeing the impact of plots on the greater world. They really, really hate other players reading some snippet from a log and saying someone is the devil and having 50 people dogpile messengers on why they are bad and bad things need to happen to them. So the goal here is to have things be organized enough where players aren't slipping through the cracks, because their org is looking out for them, and letting their stories develop, and also having player run stories have a significant impact because it can be distilled down to something understandable enough that staff can act on it, while giving players more tools to impact the world on their own in ways that aren't too disruptive."

Apostate says, "Staff will write new clues as they feel they are important, rather than being prompted by players to write new clues."

Turn in line: Alrigo

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Alrigo says, "Already asked."

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Turn in line: Adrienne

Adrienne says, "Is there a limit to the number of plots a character/player can be involved in? There are active players who seem to show up in so many plots. Will SCs have the authority to try to spread out the love so that more people get attention?"

Apostate says, "That's likely going to be more the responsibility of the storyteller and particular plot owner than the Story Coordinator. Like for example, there's a Storyteller that's only comfortable GMing for 4 or less people, and they created the plot for their org, they'd be the ones okaying who can come or not. I fully expect the real bottleneck to be willing, available player Storytellers, and I would never want an ST running stories for someone they just aren't comfortbale with. It just doesn't work out. I think an SC while trying to find a storyteller could easily say, 'Could you run it for these 4 players, who haven't been in any plots recently' and that's fine"

Turn in line: Kiera

Kiera says, "already taken care of"

Turn in line: Cadern

Cadern says, "There was a point earlier about how there's often kind of two ways of interacting with a personal plot e.g. just a teaser to learn about metaplot, then there's the actual using it to interact with the world. I know sometimes this can lead to some confusion/feels about more generic/unique but overall question 1) Do you forsee/have in mind as we move to this new model of storytelling how we handle/create secrets in this case changing to reflect there may be less direct staff attention available for the first part?

2) Is it possible or do you forsee where we might tag beat / parts of a plot requests in that way? e.g. Where it's purely informative/discovery e.g. who is trying to query their friendly secret spirit/guide/dead/soul/sentience to just generally learn more about the world/supernatural. Which can probably witha little bit of guidance bet done by any storyteller or even the SCs/PCs with maybe a staff hint via the plot system?

As opposed to the point where i I want to effect some change and I happen to want to use my handy doodad? At which point you kind of pass it up to staff to run for a time and then pass it back? I just worry a little about this idea that 'oh this plot is important/not-important because x,y,z is runnings vs, staff x' and wondering if you have in mind how we can kind of filter asks but still keep it kind of where all plots have the same potential to impact the world if that makes sense? And I'm not sure if it's expected that we should just break each phase into like separate plots entirely or if expectation is that as an ST I can manage the plot through each of those phases"

Apostate says, "1. I'd really want any newly written secrets to have pretty concrete possibilities for how someone uses it to get involved and who. 2. Yeah, and this is probably getting a little ahead since it mostly will come down to the level of risk plots have, where no risk plots can be still extremely relevant because they are informational or have some kind of relationship development that's very meaningful a character's arc, but wouldn't involve the kind of experimentation or actions that are perilous and involve risk and sacrifice. Will likely discuss most of this in the STing cal events, probably will do first one tomorrow"

Turn in line: Anisha

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Anisha says, "So my question goes to clues, prps and plots - currently you have to have a revelation to write a prp clue, which is fine and dandy, but for at least one of my prps, I essentially had to put in a placeholder revelation because part of it will be determined by what players do in the PrP. Will prp-clues forever be hooked to revelations? What kind of culture are you hoping to foster with regards to player-storytellers writing clues/revelations?"

Apostate says, "Honestly I think that is probably going to be depreciated. The whole reason that it was created was to allow lore made by Storytellers to be findable by other players and I think it doesn't do that job well, and will be largely replaced by other systems."

Turn in line: Ember

Anisha says, "sweet"

Apostate says, "deprecated*"

Anisha has joined the line.

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Turn in line: Sina

Apostate says, "Will come back to Ember"

Sina says in Eurusi, "My question is about Shardhavens. I know a while back you were talking about putting a system in place for exploring these. Are there any updates about how this will work? Will these fall into @org plots that player storytellers can run as PRPs? Or will these be run by GMs? Or something else entirely? I think I remember something mentioned about a coded system, but my brain is failing me. :)"

Ember says, "Speaking of clues: will it be possible/advised to ask for touch-ups to character secret clues to prepare for making a proper, advanceable plot out of them? I'll use the specific example of Ember-- her character secret has a bunch of stuff about her, but also specific dead giveaway mentions of other active PCs and who they really are and what they did and so on, in addition to mentions of less potentially spot-blowing-up things like other orgs. Would asking for, say, my character secret to be split in two -- the Just Gives Away Ember's Secret part, and the Gives Away Other People's Secrets Too part, be considered prudent if I'm going to do an 'Ember seeks out and collaborates' thing for my personal arc? Because how it works right now is I've TOLD people Ember's secret in scenes but not shared the clue for fear of blowing people up."

Apostate says, "So Shardhavens were honestly fully coded (we ran people through them), but I didn't like how they interacted with our combat system very well and they tie into a lot of magic stuff that isn't live yet. The plan IS for storytellers to be able to use them, but there's other working parts that really need to be finished. So there will both be free form poking around them, and then staff and player storytellers running them as backdrops."

Apostate says, "And yeah, I don't mind secrets being tweaked to be able to be more easily shareable/formatted in a way better to be used, that's fine."

Turn in line: Anisha

Anisha says, "Follow-Up: Will there be any clue-writing at all on the storytellers, in which case my question on the kind of culture you want to foster there stands, or will that be wholly the realm of the staff going forward? If this is all tied to mechanics yet to be written and you can't answer, then that's understandable."

Teague has joined the line.

Apostate says, "Probably yes but a narrower scope. Bluntly speaking, we have a real, real problem with the sheer volume of lore. Creating any kind of new lore right now is bad, even from full staff, and I very much have to cut back on that from player storytellers because if I told you the amount of hours I lost trying to track down something obscure invented by someone that no longer played the game once in a PRP that someone else was trying to follow up on, it would be horrifying. It has to be much more structured and much more limited."

Turn in line: Teague

Anisha says, "Thank you. I absolutely understand that."

Kiera has joined the line.

Teague says, "I know that you told me new players are not getting secrets. So for new players coming into the game at this point, due to this sounding like a major part of the game. What will be done to make up for that?"

Apostate says, "It would be more accurate to say that secrets were a way of trying to foster involvement inside plots in a round about way that I didn't find very effective. Like, it's, 'okay, this person is nudged towards the Horned God plot'. It's much more effective to do that directly, by like doing a story for House Charon that has something happen to the characters or domain or house that directly ties into the Horned God plot, so it's more a matter of doing the equivalent at a more effective scale."

Turn in line: Kiera

Anisha has joined the line.

Apostate says, "To further on that, I don't mind if say, player storytellers would write them for new players as a way to involve them specifically in plots they are overseeing, that would also be fine."

Apostate says, "But I think it's too down in the weeds for staff."

Kiera hms "so what do you see as the role of scholars going forward as a lot of of time/energy is used in investigations

Apostate says, "Plots dealing with on screen GM'd investigations, trying to decipher what the meanings of the ruins are before the Demon of Glor'ruus devours the party."

Turn in line: Anisha

Anisha says, "Question from someone who can't be in the room but is watching the log:
Given that it's more fun to tell stories that cohere with the established theme and lore, could we get a way to find "tellable stories" for storytellers? Like either:

1) Staff doling out scenes they need run to distribute workload, with stuff that has more potential consequence (but shy of 'this definitely needs a staffer at the helm') given to more seasoned STs, less potential consequences to greener STs, etc

OR

2) Maintenance of some kind of hierarchy of lore convolution, like "if you are pitching plots, try pitching something in [topic area A, B, C which are more straightforward] and not [topic X, Y, Z which are stupid complicated]""

Apostate says, "1. Yeah, that's going to be a reason why Storytellers will have their own channel/board that I'm in. 2. Yeah, I plan on guidelines like that, particularly in the risk tiers"

Apostate says, "All right, last call for any questions- Storytelling specific things probably tomorrow."

Pete, a Grayhope account manager leaves, following Mayir.

Apostate says, "Sure thing, go ahead, then can stop there."

Sina says, "So with the lack of secrets for new characters, and a lack of new clues/investigations, I'm curious how we can get new players involved in plot/metaplot/story? Will there be a system that allows us to more easily get new players involved in things? I worry a little about new players not finding anything to hook them into their character and get into the story."

Sina says, "Question is partially from someone not here too."

Apostate says, "Yes. The plan is to have public plots that are immediately accessible and geared specifically for new players."

Sina says, "Awesome, thank you."

Apostate says, "Sure liara, go ahead"

Liara says, "What should we tell coordinators and when? Let's say Liara has a meeting, decides she's gonna do a thing. Do I ping the coordinator first? Jump into just doing it? If it's going to be something that happens a couple weeks down the road, but may impact ongoing plots, what about that?"

Apostate says, "I think it's fine to give them a heads up whenever it's something that could meaningfully impact plots. If Liara has a meeting about say, restricting all travel in the Crownlands, then pass that along. If it's a meeting about marrying Lord Whateverhisface to Princess Forgettable, then I can't see that meaningfully impacting plots so it's no big deal. I don't want people to feel obligated to track their RP all the time, just when it's to the point of going to a storyteller to have something run"

Apostate says, "Anything else?"

Gaspar says, "Inevitably at some point, but thanks for doing this. <3"

Anisha says, "Oh!"

Mabelle says, "Thanks for hosting""

Anisha says, "If we do need to do a secret rewrite, should we just do that when requests open up and basically write down the version of the secret we are most likely to share?"

Teague says, "Thank you."

Zoey says, "Thanks a bunch, Apos!"

Raymesin says, "Thanks, Apostate! Much appreciated."

Apostate says, "Remind me but after STers are starting to run stories under the new rules, then I'd want secrets rewritten but not really before it's at a point to share with STs since no point before it has the coded tools"

Apostate says, "Okay, thank you all for coming, I appreciate the patience and understanding."

Natasha says, "Thank you so much, Apos"

6 First Legion Centurions leaves, following Adrienne.

Drake says, "Thanks for the answers apos"

Cupcake, a cookie girl leaves, following Mabelle.

1 Culler Boatswain, 2 Culler Midshipman leave, following Samira.

Liara says, "Thanks. Later!"

Carissa, a Southport bodyguard, Planchet the Lycene maggiordome leave, following Eirene.

12 Grayson House Guards leaves, following Liara.

Felicia says, "Thank Apos"

Anisha says, "Thanks, Apos <3"