Written By Vanora
Sept. 20, 2018, 2:15 p.m.(8/20/1009 AR)
Relationship Note on Mydas
I was halfway finished with my own entry on the debate that has been going on in the journals about Tehom and the Oathlands Orthodoxy.
Yet there is little I can say that would come out as eloquent as your own responses, Prince Mydas, and thus my interjecting my own thoughts is entirely unnecessary.
Merely know that I am reading your own, and in complete agreement. Even if that comes as no surprise.
Yet there is little I can say that would come out as eloquent as your own responses, Prince Mydas, and thus my interjecting my own thoughts is entirely unnecessary.
Merely know that I am reading your own, and in complete agreement. Even if that comes as no surprise.
Written By Mydas
Sept. 20, 2018, 1:23 p.m.(8/20/1009 AR)
Relationship Note on Preston
And yet, you would deny an absolute that was... never proposed. As you have suggested, perhaps you should spend some of that time at your disposal to refresh your knowledge of Tehom and His dogma? The first three levels should be enough to put your fears of such absolutes to rest. If they don't, then I'll be at a loss on how to help your case.
As to your following point, do feel free to explain it further. Were you attempting to say that the difference between Lycene Liberalism and Oathlands Orthodox, made starker with the civil war that followed, was small disagreement? Or were you trying to express something entirely different?
As to your following point, do feel free to explain it further. Were you attempting to say that the difference between Lycene Liberalism and Oathlands Orthodox, made starker with the civil war that followed, was small disagreement? Or were you trying to express something entirely different?
Written By Edain
Sept. 20, 2018, 1:14 p.m.(8/20/1009 AR)
I generally stay out of this discussion, but as it comes up frequently I thought maybe my own thoughts on this can be helpful to people curious about the counter view point.
I was raised as devoultly Oathlands Orthodox as one can. When my teachers as a child told me the believed worship of the 13th should be outlawed, I agreed with them. Now the world has become so much bigger than when I was young, and I see the 13th as filing a vital role in the Pantheon, and I do honor him in so much that the Pantheon recognize that all the gods create a balanced cosmos together, not standing appart. But I have never explicitly worshiped the 13th, and I suspect I never will.
The frequent point that many Mirrormasks have made to me over the years is that if we do not look at ourselves and acknowledge the darkness there we will all fall. While this is true I feel the Lessons of the the three Primary Triads of the Pantheon have given me the tools to look at myself, know that I am an imperfect being and strive to be better. And just like everyone sometimes I fall, and have to pull myself up and try to be better.
If you find something in the direct worship of the 13th then I am happy for you, but I have never found his worship to offer me anything that is missing from my life, and I think many that consider themselves Orthodox as I do would feel the same way. Our distrust of his worship is not based in our fear of the darkness within ourselves. We face that everyday and we have chosen a different road to not let it lead us to ruin.
I was raised as devoultly Oathlands Orthodox as one can. When my teachers as a child told me the believed worship of the 13th should be outlawed, I agreed with them. Now the world has become so much bigger than when I was young, and I see the 13th as filing a vital role in the Pantheon, and I do honor him in so much that the Pantheon recognize that all the gods create a balanced cosmos together, not standing appart. But I have never explicitly worshiped the 13th, and I suspect I never will.
The frequent point that many Mirrormasks have made to me over the years is that if we do not look at ourselves and acknowledge the darkness there we will all fall. While this is true I feel the Lessons of the the three Primary Triads of the Pantheon have given me the tools to look at myself, know that I am an imperfect being and strive to be better. And just like everyone sometimes I fall, and have to pull myself up and try to be better.
If you find something in the direct worship of the 13th then I am happy for you, but I have never found his worship to offer me anything that is missing from my life, and I think many that consider themselves Orthodox as I do would feel the same way. Our distrust of his worship is not based in our fear of the darkness within ourselves. We face that everyday and we have chosen a different road to not let it lead us to ruin.
Written By Preston
Sept. 20, 2018, 12:47 p.m.(8/20/1009 AR)
Relationship Note on Mydas
It is a clever point - though I would say it applies only should I be an absolutist and say there should never be questions. I merely deny the absolute that says there must always be a place for questions. It is a rather deeply unsatisfying position, but the truth is that like many things it is a judgement call. It is why the Godsworn are here, to spend time that others do not have in study of the Faith and dedicate ourselves to the Gods and hopefully make the right decision on when those calls need to happen.
As an aside, the issue of Marach is actually got around by the office of Carnifex - that which is necessary for the defense of the Faith is lawful in the eyes of the Faith. The offer about the history was a genuine one, your highness - I do not think we spend enough time understanding history, and thus what binds us far stronger than the small disagreements that might seek to separate us in the present.
As an aside, the issue of Marach is actually got around by the office of Carnifex - that which is necessary for the defense of the Faith is lawful in the eyes of the Faith. The offer about the history was a genuine one, your highness - I do not think we spend enough time understanding history, and thus what binds us far stronger than the small disagreements that might seek to separate us in the present.
Written By Joscelin
Sept. 20, 2018, 11:57 a.m.(8/20/1009 AR)
Relationship Note on Fairen
I don't think you've met Mongoose. 'Little' doesn't describe a thing about her. But you are correct about the other thing: she is lovely.
Except when my husband feeds her jerky.
Except when my husband feeds her jerky.
Written By Harlex
Sept. 20, 2018, 11:18 a.m.(8/20/1009 AR)
Relationship Note on Isidora
A skilled physician, healed me up. I appreciate someone use to tending to soldiers.
They aren't afraid to boss you around.
They aren't afraid to boss you around.
Written By Sabella
Sept. 20, 2018, 10:18 a.m.(8/20/1009 AR)
Just as a reminder if you are putting together a basket for the fundraiser or just want to donate an item, please try to get that to me today or tomorrow so I can start advertising all the lovely things you've come up with! All proceeds from the raffle will go towards defending the Lodge of Petrichor! I'm spending some time today designing the lovely aeterna and seasilk ensemble that will be part of my donation basket, so also make sure to contact me if you want raffle tickets!
10 (economic resources) per ticket if you're nobility, otherwise it's just 1 (economic writ) per ticket if you're not!
Send your messengers! This is going to be the best party ever!
10 (economic resources) per ticket if you're nobility, otherwise it's just 1 (economic writ) per ticket if you're not!
Send your messengers! This is going to be the best party ever!
Written By Mydas
Sept. 20, 2018, 9:28 a.m.(8/19/1009 AR)
Relationship Note on Preston
Look upon every perspective. Look. Words are important, and look does not yet mean speak, or ask. Look, and think. Is there a side to this that bears bringing up, without which we might actually step away from the Gods further than if we were to blindly follow?
If such is the case, what would be best? To say nothing and obey? Or speak up and in so doing, follow the true will of the Gods? You spoke of Marach, Grandmaster of Templars. Allowing nothing but obediance to the then Dominus would make those that murdered him traitors rather than guardians of the Faith against heresy.
You can't have it both ways, Grandmaster.
If such is the case, what would be best? To say nothing and obey? Or speak up and in so doing, follow the true will of the Gods? You spoke of Marach, Grandmaster of Templars. Allowing nothing but obediance to the then Dominus would make those that murdered him traitors rather than guardians of the Faith against heresy.
You can't have it both ways, Grandmaster.
Written By Preston
Sept. 20, 2018, 9:20 a.m.(8/19/1009 AR)
Relationship Note on Mydas
It is to look at a matter from every possible perspective, Prince Mydas. Your words. The Lycene style is just that - to open up to question in public matters that some feel may be best done in private or not at all. Others would say some perspectives are unacceptable, and too close to the Abyss, too easy for someone to stumble and in the dark place a foot upon that ground. If that is a view you yourself hold, then I am glad - for it is a safer place to be and I am sorry for misunderstanding - but somehow I do not think it is.
My original point was you misunderstand when you say that the fear many have is of Tehom, when really it is fear of ourselves, fear of the mortal, because mortals slip and fall. Even the greatest of us. Equally when you say they do not worship Tehom - all worship Tehom in the Compact. The style of that worship may differ, it may be private rather than the public style, but they honour him all the same. If you know of those who deny the Gods worship, I am sure your Seraph would like to know their names so they can rectify the matter.
No, I read what you write very carefully Prince Mydas. And what you seek to champion. It speaks much to your dedication as a disciple - and your embracing of your return to the Lyceum.
My original point was you misunderstand when you say that the fear many have is of Tehom, when really it is fear of ourselves, fear of the mortal, because mortals slip and fall. Even the greatest of us. Equally when you say they do not worship Tehom - all worship Tehom in the Compact. The style of that worship may differ, it may be private rather than the public style, but they honour him all the same. If you know of those who deny the Gods worship, I am sure your Seraph would like to know their names so they can rectify the matter.
No, I read what you write very carefully Prince Mydas. And what you seek to champion. It speaks much to your dedication as a disciple - and your embracing of your return to the Lyceum.
Written By Mydas
Sept. 20, 2018, 8:57 a.m.(8/19/1009 AR)
Relationship Note on Preston
It seems you've failed to read my writing properly. Have I written that all questions and doubts should be raised? No. Much as I might enjoy discussion, we would all be served if you saw what is rather than what you wish to see.
Try harder.
Try harder.
Written By Preston
Sept. 20, 2018, 8:50 a.m.(8/19/1009 AR)
Relationship Note on Mydas
Yet, not all perspectives are equal or even valid, your highness. Nor must all questioning, which by its very nature is to assert or introduce doubt into the existing opinion, be done in public where such questioning could disturb others who were previously certain in their faith and truths. I have had many questions in my time, after Fawkuhl, after Stormwall, I have sat and prayed to the Gods - including Tehom - to let me understand if my Faith was misguided, if I had trodden off the path. Those resolved themselves without the need to recourse to public questions, to shared celebration of questions as the Lycene celebrations of the 13th often do - and I think such public debate would have only served to harm, not to heal.
It is not a matter of extremes - questions have their place, and justice often requires them. Yet. Believing all can be questioned, and that there is room for compromise with any in the name of a greater peace, is not something that can ever have a place. It is to push the Mirrormask ideal to an extreme.
I know well Most Holy Orazio's thoughts, he and I have argued on occasion and he has taught me much. However I think you may misread the intent in his words. It is not to say that all questions are allowed and we should openly allow division or dissent without check. It is to say there are limits, there are points where debate may lead others that is beyond what the Faith will tolerate. And we will not compromise our sacred trust for momentary victories, or for the unity of the compact. If others err, we will correct them as loving parents, not stay quiet to avoid upset. The discussions in the Faith - over the Orthodox, the Lycene and Pragmatic styles - are over small matters. Style and nuance, over or under emphasis of certain tropes. Such discussion is fine, it does not weaken us. Yet, it must always be controlled. And when it goes too far, when people cross the threshold from discussion into dissent, from division into schism, so it is my order that brings correction and balance.
Sometime perhaps, your highness, we will hold a night of canticles about the fall of Marach and the rise of the Orthodox. It is almost time for the Feast of Alor Valardin once more, after all.
It is not a matter of extremes - questions have their place, and justice often requires them. Yet. Believing all can be questioned, and that there is room for compromise with any in the name of a greater peace, is not something that can ever have a place. It is to push the Mirrormask ideal to an extreme.
I know well Most Holy Orazio's thoughts, he and I have argued on occasion and he has taught me much. However I think you may misread the intent in his words. It is not to say that all questions are allowed and we should openly allow division or dissent without check. It is to say there are limits, there are points where debate may lead others that is beyond what the Faith will tolerate. And we will not compromise our sacred trust for momentary victories, or for the unity of the compact. If others err, we will correct them as loving parents, not stay quiet to avoid upset. The discussions in the Faith - over the Orthodox, the Lycene and Pragmatic styles - are over small matters. Style and nuance, over or under emphasis of certain tropes. Such discussion is fine, it does not weaken us. Yet, it must always be controlled. And when it goes too far, when people cross the threshold from discussion into dissent, from division into schism, so it is my order that brings correction and balance.
Sometime perhaps, your highness, we will hold a night of canticles about the fall of Marach and the rise of the Orthodox. It is almost time for the Feast of Alor Valardin once more, after all.
Written By Lisebet
Sept. 20, 2018, 8:44 a.m.(8/19/1009 AR)
That was an intriguing conversation. I apologize for not naming names, but really, there is no need. Only it's been suggested that should I wear Lycene garb, I should go all the way. And if I am going to do so, I should speak to someone Lycene first.
This seems rather like a challenge, wouldn't you say?
I wonder who I can find to speak to.
This seems rather like a challenge, wouldn't you say?
I wonder who I can find to speak to.
Written By Mydas
Sept. 20, 2018, 8:20 a.m.(8/19/1009 AR)
Relationship Note on Preston
The idea that the worship of Tehom, and in effect the Mirrormasks, merely bring "divisive doubts", as you seem so terrified of, is a sadly common idea.
Yet, it is much more than mere doubts. It is to look upon a matter with every perspective possible. It is to listen to every side of a story, and discard it not for its unpopularity. It is to listen to the accused while the mob frothing at the mouth howls for blood. It is to see beyond the blindness of self-righteousness and temper it with the notion of exception. It is to think, where others would slash and burn.
And it is to remind that even Godsworn who have spent their entire lives within the embrace of the Faith are not above their own failure of understanding.
And to answer the matter of doubts and the "virtue" of unity, I would remind you of the writings of the then Legate Orazio on the matter, should you require a refresher. You can start at 5/27/1008 AR and go further back from there.
Yet, it is much more than mere doubts. It is to look upon a matter with every perspective possible. It is to listen to every side of a story, and discard it not for its unpopularity. It is to listen to the accused while the mob frothing at the mouth howls for blood. It is to see beyond the blindness of self-righteousness and temper it with the notion of exception. It is to think, where others would slash and burn.
And it is to remind that even Godsworn who have spent their entire lives within the embrace of the Faith are not above their own failure of understanding.
And to answer the matter of doubts and the "virtue" of unity, I would remind you of the writings of the then Legate Orazio on the matter, should you require a refresher. You can start at 5/27/1008 AR and go further back from there.
Written By Preston
Sept. 20, 2018, 5:42 a.m.(8/19/1009 AR)
Relationship Note on Mydas
I think you may misunderstand some of the concerns around Tehomic worship in the manner embraced by the Lycene traditions, your highness.
It is not fear of Tehom himself but of what he might bring, and what the response in people might be that urges caution. That Tehom is a god you assert as an inviolable truth, yes? As we would all. So already we accept some truths are beyond question. To enter doubt there - to suggest one /could/ question that can lead to no further enlightenment, for we already know Tehom is a God, and instead can only invite heresy and worse should someone think otherwise.
Further, to revel in public questions and doubt risks bringing forth something much worse - hesitation and its ultimate form, inaction. These small things could cost the individual dearly, and even the Compact. They give succor and comfort to the Abyss in all its form, because good men will stand by, and in so doing cast down all that is good about them. There are some in the extreme of the Orthodox, yes, who say Tehom is the abyss - this is not how I think the vast majority of the Orthodox feel. But I think we would say that improper and incautious worship /could/ be a route to the Abyss, as it was for the heretic Marach. That is why there is a balance. The Orthodox take a conservative view on it, that we must question in private or in confidence with a Godsworn, that these doubts will be banished by faith - not that they themselves bolster our faith. Lycene take the balance the other way, that we must embrace these doubts in public, we must question. The Graysons between. But none I hope would fail to worship Tehom as a God - even if our methods of that worship differ - nor would they question his divine nature.
It is always welcome to consider the nuance of the Faith and the different attitudes within it - it is something to be encouraged. If I may be bold enough to enter a small note of rebuke, those who are disciples should be wary of pronouncements about the fate of souls. That is a heavy topic, and one which should be undertaken only with the consideration and solemnity of the Godsworn.
It is not fear of Tehom himself but of what he might bring, and what the response in people might be that urges caution. That Tehom is a god you assert as an inviolable truth, yes? As we would all. So already we accept some truths are beyond question. To enter doubt there - to suggest one /could/ question that can lead to no further enlightenment, for we already know Tehom is a God, and instead can only invite heresy and worse should someone think otherwise.
Further, to revel in public questions and doubt risks bringing forth something much worse - hesitation and its ultimate form, inaction. These small things could cost the individual dearly, and even the Compact. They give succor and comfort to the Abyss in all its form, because good men will stand by, and in so doing cast down all that is good about them. There are some in the extreme of the Orthodox, yes, who say Tehom is the abyss - this is not how I think the vast majority of the Orthodox feel. But I think we would say that improper and incautious worship /could/ be a route to the Abyss, as it was for the heretic Marach. That is why there is a balance. The Orthodox take a conservative view on it, that we must question in private or in confidence with a Godsworn, that these doubts will be banished by faith - not that they themselves bolster our faith. Lycene take the balance the other way, that we must embrace these doubts in public, we must question. The Graysons between. But none I hope would fail to worship Tehom as a God - even if our methods of that worship differ - nor would they question his divine nature.
It is always welcome to consider the nuance of the Faith and the different attitudes within it - it is something to be encouraged. If I may be bold enough to enter a small note of rebuke, those who are disciples should be wary of pronouncements about the fate of souls. That is a heavy topic, and one which should be undertaken only with the consideration and solemnity of the Godsworn.
Written By Fairen
Sept. 20, 2018, 1:46 a.m.(8/19/1009 AR)
Relationship Note on Joscelin
An expensive mistake, I am certain. Still, I admire your work and appreciate the skill you bring to your craft.
That aside, please leave your lovely dog out of this. I have never met the little critter, but I bet your dog is absolutely wonderful.
That aside, please leave your lovely dog out of this. I have never met the little critter, but I bet your dog is absolutely wonderful.
Written By Joscelin
Sept. 20, 2018, 12:43 a.m.(8/19/1009 AR)
Chipped a diamond today. Gods' damned square cuts.
Diamonds cleave naturally in squared shapes, and now and then my setting graver will slip (yes, even as a master Crafter, this happens sometimes). Usually this results in little to no harm, just a small nick in the metal that needs to be polished out.
But on a day like today, there was a flaw in the gem. Tiny, nothing to fuss over, the only person that would notice it would likely only be myself. When the edge of my graver caught the inclusion that came to the surface on the girdle of the stone, it was like fate. Destiny. A tragic, awful destiny. The flaw became a chunk of missing gem, smaller than a grain of sand but a massive accident to the eyes of any jeweler. Shame! Shame on me, shame on the Arterius name, shame on my dog.
Ah well. To the lapidary artist with you, nasty little chipped diamond. We'll have you re-cut and without that damn flaw to mock me and tempt my graver a second. You'll be even better for it, I promise, your clarity and value improved. I'm just happy it was you that was injured and not my thumb again. You even glitter maliciously.
Yes, Scholar, I carry on conversations with my work. Don't make faces, I know for a fact many of you mutter into your books as you write. So there.
Diamonds cleave naturally in squared shapes, and now and then my setting graver will slip (yes, even as a master Crafter, this happens sometimes). Usually this results in little to no harm, just a small nick in the metal that needs to be polished out.
But on a day like today, there was a flaw in the gem. Tiny, nothing to fuss over, the only person that would notice it would likely only be myself. When the edge of my graver caught the inclusion that came to the surface on the girdle of the stone, it was like fate. Destiny. A tragic, awful destiny. The flaw became a chunk of missing gem, smaller than a grain of sand but a massive accident to the eyes of any jeweler. Shame! Shame on me, shame on the Arterius name, shame on my dog.
Ah well. To the lapidary artist with you, nasty little chipped diamond. We'll have you re-cut and without that damn flaw to mock me and tempt my graver a second. You'll be even better for it, I promise, your clarity and value improved. I'm just happy it was you that was injured and not my thumb again. You even glitter maliciously.
Yes, Scholar, I carry on conversations with my work. Don't make faces, I know for a fact many of you mutter into your books as you write. So there.
Written By Helia
Sept. 19, 2018, 9:10 p.m.(8/18/1009 AR)
Relationship Note on Fecundo
You're a smashing duelist and you fought wonderfully. You really made me work for that victory! Thank you!
Written By Fecundo
Sept. 19, 2018, 9:05 p.m.(8/18/1009 AR)
Relationship Note on Helia
Officially 0-1 with the Champions. Lost my first official duel to Helia in the initial round of the Unrivaled tournament. I got a little cocky, I think, after my last sparring session with Princess Reese Grayson. Might not get me any confidence regarding future duels, but it is what it is. Could also surprise folks and be a spoiler. Just have to see how it works out.
Written By Kaldur
Sept. 19, 2018, 8:52 p.m.(8/18/1009 AR)
I am unexpectedly leaving Arx, to Pearlspire on business, but will return soon. Hopefully. No, you don't need to put that. Or that. [Scholar's Note: he makes frustrated noises]
Written By Mydas
Sept. 19, 2018, 8:27 p.m.(8/18/1009 AR)
Relationship Note on Rosalie
Not an association I've often heard, but a fitting one. Our choices rarely keep us on one straight path. It wavers and curves, closer and further from the Light and Dark. We understand that, for such pivotal moments, quiet contemplation, or a faceless listener, might be required. Hence the Shrine of the Thirteenth.
Please note that the scholars may take some time preparing your journal for others to read.