From the atrium does Hadrian arrive to the latest gathering of the Salon, all while the usual assortment of guards, aides, advisors, or lawyers travel in his wake. While they venture off to scatter throughout the whole of the Empirical, Hadrian maintains his course as he approaches the bar. Upon his approach a hand behind the bar prepares a drink and upon Hadrian's arrival it is passed into his own awaiting hand, while a polite smile and nod are offered back in exchange, "Why thank you, you're too kind," he says with a playful wink. His glass of brandy in hand, Hadrian twirls about at the bar, his glass held at chest height in order to grant it greater stability and prevent it from sloshing all about.

At the completion of his turn, Hadrian's gaze sweeps across the chamber and to those faces who have presented themselves early. Each is given a collective smile, nod, and then the Duke begins to make his stroll along toward the collection of elegant chairs that he may settle in for the discussion-to-come, "I see we've a number of notable faces and the names attached to them that have joined us tonight," Hadrian's smile persists. As he makes his way toward his seat, Ryhalt is regarded with a nod in greeting along with Hadrian's free hand gesturing toward his attire, "Blossoming your boots? I could see that becoming the next big trend, one that I'd appreciate," he remarks with a chuckle.

Then there's Jerrica, whom Hadrian regards for a moment of silence. She seems to quite literally stop him in his tracks while he considers her, as though an art critic inspecting a painting. Finally he nods, motioning toward her with a renewed smile, "I love your earrings. There isn't more to say, because that's all that needs be said". Then onward he goes. As Hadrian turns and begins to lower like a puddle of aeterna and umbra, one leg casually shifts to rest across the knee of the other as he continues, "I see we've also brought out Cesare Whisper," he acknowledges with an appreciative nod, "which does all of us and The Salon a great honor, having a Whisper among us. Thank you for coming". Then Hadrian's attention falls on Isabeau and he favors her with a warm, broad smile, "And Duchess Telmar, my friend, my sometimes nemesis, you are radiant this evening; but that just makes it all any other day."

Finally the Duke permits himself a sip of his Second Wall, a cherry brandy hailing from Ostria. When the glass lowers once more, Hadrian presents the question, "Should the Salon charge membership fees?" he pauses a beat before he continues, as though to set the context, "The Empirical, let alone these discussions and gatherings, require funds to maintain. A fee could mean that some voices that would otherwise be heard, would be silenced by an amount of silver. Should the Salon charge membership fees?"

Contrary to the natural order of things, Calypso's steps aren't heavy as she comes into the salon; with the coming of summer, she's traded her big clompy stomping boots for something more appropriate to the weather. In flowing silks that move and flow with her body, this is about as Lycene as she ever looks. She's still swanning in a little bit late, though, so she's still Calypso.

Cesare, clad in silk the color of a summer sea and the sky shading toward twilight, his hair tied neatly back in a braided knot today to keep it off the back of his neck, raises a glass of wine he's already appropriated in response to Hadrian's greeting, a smile flickering across his face. "I thought I'd be remiss if I didn't ensure there was at least one individual present to represent the commoners. Although I must apologize in advance if I express some rather common opinions." Leaning his cheek against his knuckles, he muses, "It's a question of priorities, isn't it? The trappings of luxury are admittedly lovely. A discussion inherently requires little more than opinions and those willing to share them. Is it more important to truly democratize the exchange of ideas, or to maintain the style to which we've all become accustomed?" A pause, and then he adds, wryly, "Or is this all a more rhetorical question simply to provoke said discussion in the first place?"

Ryhalt glances down at his pants, lifting his eyebrows in the surprised way of someone that cares only to dress sharp, but is much too busy to arrange those details themselves. "If I start setting a fashion trend I think quite a few would swoon from shock. He smiles to Jerrica and the others. "Good evening."

He chuckles as Hadrian cuts directly to the matter at hand for the evening, but then grows more serious to address it. "While I am not a member of the Salon, it does share similar ideals to those that are dear to me. I think it is against your mission to charge fees, which would be a barrier to the poorer of your members. Silver and those willing to donate it are plentiful in the city. It would be more productive in the long run to receive funds from events or people wishing to fund this cause than to rely upon membership dues which can wax and wane based on who you price out of the newly exclusive club."

"Oh thank you!" Jerrica beams at Hadrian. The Grayson princess is dressed appropriately for summer in a golden dress and strappy sandals. Her wavy chestnut locks are partially pinned back making them more tamed than normal. Upon her arrival at the Empirical, she had acquired a drink then went to greet Isabeau and Ryhalt. "I am glad to see you here!" Which one was that aimed for? Who knows. Maybe both? As for the topic at hand, "I understand the need to maintain the salon, but does the burden have to be equally shared among the members? There are many ways to raise funds and gather donations. It is important for the mission here to hear as many voices as possible."

Her usual demure smile curving her lips in acknowledgement of the compliment as she moves to find some form of chair to drape herself atop. "And you look just as you ought, my Lord." Isabeau settles down, smoothes down her jade skirts, and gets comfortable before she answers, "I don't think so. If you need donations, you can just say so and the members who can will donate, and those who cannot, won't feel pressured." She brushes fingertips through some errant strands of hair that have escaped her hair ornament.

Isabeau has joined the scattered chairs in various elegant styles.

Calypso pads over to the bar for a glass of rum. She smiles while she pours the drink for herself. Her ice colored eyes glitter, full of good humor and something a little sharper than good humor. "I'm willing to pay for access if that's what it comes down to." Access to what? Presumably to the Salon, but if that's what she means, she doesn't spell it out any clearer. "But I'm just speaking for me."

The hand holding Hadrian's glass of brandy rises. His fingers unfurl ever so slightly that they may waggle in acknowledgment toward Duchess Calypso Malvici. That is the extent of the greeting for the time being, as Hadrian's focus shifts back to regard both Cesare and Ryhalt as their respective opinions - or views - are given voice. By the end of each, Hadrian's smile grows only greater and fonder as he nods toward Cesare, "You're right that the question is asked exclusively to be the spark for this discussion. In simplest terms?" Hadrian's gaze drifts throughout the Empriical, to each face that has turned itself toward the conversation before he concludes, "I'll pay from my own coffers before there's ever a membership fee at the Salon. I believe the subject still warrants discussion though, because... hey... maybe I'm wrong here. Maybe the Salon should charge a membership fee? I don't think I am wrong though, I'm in agreement with those voices that have spoken thus far that membership fees aren't necessary."

He goes quiet for a moment before he gestures toward Calypso, nodding once toward her before he asks with a tilt of his head, "Which is admirable and the Salon would surely appreciate it, should it ever be necessary. As I said: I'll pay from my own coffers before it ever comes to that, but to know that there are those willing? It is truly appreciated."

Hadrian's attention then drifts around the gathering, his lips pursed for a moment before he turns his focus back around to Cesare. He considers the Whisper among them for a long, silent moment before he asks, "As the Whisper who has graced us? How would you propose approaching the matter of funding, specifically?"

"How significant are the needs of the Salon?" Jerrica asks as she finds herself a perch. "Is there a regular funding source currently? I am not a member, but I have found myself here a few times lately. I would need to know more before having a meaningful opinion." She takes a sip of her drink then holds the cup on her lap as she listens to what the others have to say.

Jerrica has joined the scattered chairs in various elegant styles.

Hadrian has joined the scattered chairs in various elegant styles.

Cesare is in the middle of taking a measured sip from his glass of wine when Hadrian addresses him again. He raises his eyebrows slightly. "As a Whisper, my lord, I'm afraid my skillset lies more specifically in the venue of companionship and entertainment than it does in the particulars of economics. Duchess Telmar's suggestion seems somewhat apt to me. Rather than instituting a mandatory membership fee, it would be advisable to solicit donations from among those who frequent the Salon and value the free exchange of ideas and discourse. Make it very clear that donations will have no affect on members' standings, that any appreciation will be entirely insubstantial as far as favoritism is concerned." He lifts a shoulder and lets it fall in an easy shrug. "One needn't be a member of this organization in order to value the exchange of ideas. I imagine many among the Mirrormasks would agree with that. Especially as we continue to grow even larger and more diverse and cosmopolitan as a Compact, it's essential that the exchange remain /free/, in my opinion."

Ryhalt nods to Jerrica's question, sharing her problem. He listens to Cesare as he answers what was asked of him and nods once more.

Isabeau directs a warm smile to Cesare at his agreement, before her cobalt blue eyes slide to Hadrian. "While I do so love being told I'm right by a room, I could always put forth an alternate opinion, just to be contrary." She says, amusement tugging at her full lips as she raises a finger and points out, "We could reasonably charge a membership fee that is participation or silver. Those who attend and contribute to discussions rather than sitting in on and offering no opinions have no fee to pay, or perhaps those who run meetings, or offer teaching to members or otherwise do something of benefit to the group." She crinkles her nose in a slight crunch as she flicks her gaze amongst the others, then she gestures to Jerrica, "But I also want an answer to her Highness's question too."

Calypso lifts her glass to Hadrian before bringing it to her dark-painted lips for a small sip. Beyond her own particular case, she seems to be one of those people with no particular opinion, at least on this issue.

Cesare shakes his head. "Any fee discourages the exchange," he counters immediately. "Sitting in and offering no opinion - which is precisely what I did at the last Salon, you may recall, as I had little to contribute and wanted simply to learn - can lead to the expansion of minds, the brightening of wit and intellect. If anyone wants to attend, they should be able."

"In short? They aren't," Hadrian answers Jerrica regarding the significance of the Salon's needs, "it is maintained with enough funds that allows operations to go unhindered, with enough to splurge on these larger gatherings and discussions where we have historically seen anywhere from a handful of people to a couple dozen. The issue that arises is if we choose to do something greater; such as new furnishings," Hadrian remarks with a wave of his hand, indicating the new furniture and other decor of the Empirical's main chamber with a casual sweep of his hand. "Buying new chairs? Funds. New bar? Funds. Stocking the liquor? Funds. Security for an event, especially if no one realizes that there is security among us? Funds. There are many things that aren't a constant drain on funds that can add up over time or go beyond the humble means of the Salon. To be clear: the Salon is fine right now, there was a rather generous donation made by Duchess Cambria Mazetti recently that has covered our expenses for quite some time. It was that generosity that made me consider this evening's topic as a source of discussion".

Then Hadrian's attention drifts back to Cesare, then flicks to Isabeau, and finally back to Isabeau. He sips from his glass of brandy while Cesare speaks, his remaining level upon the Whisper. He nods along when his glass drifts away and he provides another nod or two to accompany Cesare's words. By the end of it, he lightly claps the fingers of his free hand against the opposite wrist as he answers, "Well said, Whisper Cesare. Which is exactly why I sought your opinion; companionship, diplomacy, entertainment, and more are the realm of the Whispers. Offering good advice when sought? Also among their strengths, in my opinion".

Then Hadrian's attention drifts back to Calypso, to whom he offers a bright smile in answer, "You are, of course, greatly appreciated for your prospective generosity. It is unnecessary at this time, but your willingness? Is truly appreciated."

Then to Isabeau, Hadrian remarks, "I do love when people are contrarian during these discussions. They get a bit dull otherwise and sometimes? I don't want to play the role. I have to do it soooo much". He nods along with Isabeau's thoughts though, though his head tilts to one side with a sort of 'eeehhh' expression drifting across his sharp features, "Then we run into the question of whether an individual's level of participation is enough or not. If they ask one question, then sit in silence, drowning themselves in liquor for the remainder of the time? Did they *really* participate? Of course they did! They asked a question, per their perception."

Calypso sets her glass gently on the bar with a very soft 'tink' of glass against wood. "What's the case for membership fees? A strong case has been made against them, but what purpose would they serve that can't be served by a few people who have the means and the willingness to step up when something matters to them?"

Each occupant of the Empirical gets a considered glance from Jerrica after Hadrian mentions that there might be covert security amongst them. She nods to Calypso agreeing with the point. "And if they must be set, do the fees need to be the same for all? Could it be a sort of honor system allowing members to give as they are able? I seem to have more questions than answers tonight. But I do think the exchange of ideas would suffer if only those above a certain threshold are able to contribute."

Isabeau, for her part, didn't seem to particularly agree with her own contrarian stance, so diametrically opposed to her first and likely true opinion. With a casual gesture of her hand, "While we're at it, close the doors and discussion to members only. The way you can be a member? Arduous application process, sponsored by a reigning member, and bribes." Again, the blond beauty's 'opinion' is not stated with anything resembling conviction.

She puts a question towards Hadrian, however, asking, "How frequently do you think renovations will really be desired? Are there contentious verbal duels that break out into fist fights that break the chairs regularly? And why wasn't I invited?"

Cesare rises, moving to the bar to refill his wine glass, casting a weather eye around to see if anyone else needs a freshening as well - as a good Whisper ought. "I believe those tend to occur more frequently in the Thrax and Redrain wards," he offers to Isabeau. "They do get the blood pumping, though. I highly recommend Lady Medeia's gatherings if you ever need to witness a spirited beating or two. Or several."

To Calypso, Hadrian answers, "Because in many cases those who are of limited means don't often have the ability to bring a matter to our floor. The Salon takes on the burden of those costs. Though in terms of the case for fees? The Salon has rarely gets anything back from its members - or public guests - so its hospitality and welcoming environment? Is at its own expense". Then onward to Jerrica does Hadrian goes, turning his attention toward her as he answers, "Life isn't fair, yet there are many who would abuse that system too. 'I gave ten thousand silver last week; you only gave five hundred silver? It sounds to me like you should be quiet, because you didn't give nearly enough to have a substantial voice'," Hadrian presents in hypothetical fashion that may very well make a Mirrormask proud. Then his attention settles onto Isabeau and he offers her a grin, "You haven't a clue just how rowdy all of you can get. I've nearly had to have someone carried out at *least* a half dozen times by hired security or the Iron Guard... incidentally? They've been the same two people all six times. That might just have to be the next Salon discussion: how much is too much before you earn yourself a ban from the Empirical?"

Cesare has joined the scattered chairs in various elegant styles.

Ryhalt scratches idly at one of his sidewhiskers. "So, there is no compelling or necessary need for fees. Not really any need to discuss them in that case..."

"If I am sometimes your nemesis, does that mean I must challenge you to a debate to do so properly, my Lord?" Isabeau offers with a sweet smile and a raise to her eyebrows, "One does hate to disappoint, but I was saving my verbal scathing for someone else presently." She offers a half-baked apology, her bright eyes dancing with amusement. She smiles over at Cesare, "But perhaps that is how we can raise funds. Selling tickets to the fist fights coming from the philosophical debates."

A soft 'tch' from Cesare at Hadrian's hypothetical. "That, I believe, would be the responsibility of the Salon's leadership to curtail, would it not? And I believe your lordship to be fully capable of curtailing such behavior that is directly against your organization's stated purposes. By nonviolent methods, of course." He blinks and gives a placid, beatific, but entirely-too-brief smile. "You clearly also need to be employing far more Whisper intervention, if this level of discussion-incited violence is occurring at such frequency."

"Ultimately? Not really," Hadrian answers back at Ryhalt with a chuckle, "merely a discussion to be had. One could argue that the deeper conversation is whether something as simple as a pile of coin should be able to silence someone's opinion or thoughts on a subject. Maybe I'd hoped that there would be more vocal opposition to and for the idea, creating a larger, more intense debate. As I've said in the past? You can't win them all when it comes to thinking up a topic of discussion," he admits with a casual shrug of his shoulders. Then Hadrian's bright green eyes sweep throughout the chamber, to each face cast in his direction - and even those that are not - before he concludes his answer to Ryhalt, "The discussion has merits regardless. As stated at the onset; I have no intentions of seeing The Salon ever instititute membership fees, because as Whisper Cesare said, it goes against the spirit of the Salon. That doesn't mean that the matter can't be discussed for the sake of it. That's sort of what we do here," Hadrian explains with a quiet chuckle.

To Isabeau his chin lifts and his head tilts before a smile tugs at the corners of his mouth, "You are only my nemesis at times because you cited yourself in that role recently. Though if you'd like a debate? I'd be happy to indulge you some day. As the challenged, I would, of course, select the topic of debate," and then his smile turns positively devilish.

Before it fades away again and Hadrian's attention turns to regard Cesare, "Precisely, it would fall upon the leadership of the Salon to maintain order and, I think, we do. There are some who simply want the attention from that confrontation, so it's a balancing act of be graceful with the matter and ensuring that the experience of others isn't tread upon by those who crave that attention. Though the next time there is such an instance of foolishness? The Whisper House will be at the top of my list for mediators."

"Duke Farshaw has illustrated a point though. I do believe that the discussion as is has been given enough regard. Shall we call this gathering to a close then?" Hadrian asks with a flick of his wrist, sending the contents of his glass swirling.

"Unless anyone else has something additional to say," Jerrica replies to Hadrian's question. "I think the discussion may have run it's course."

Calypso lifts her glass and knocks back a considerable amount of the remaining rum.

"There's no such thing as a 'simple pile of coin', the things it's equated to will always hold the power to sway thought or action for better or worse." Ryhalt grins at Hadrian. "No harm in discussing any topic. Just some have more fruitful or interesting content than others."

A playful narrowing of her gaze at Hadrian, tempered with a smile at the topic of debates. Opposed to his devilish grin, Isabeau offers a seraphic one, her hands folding neatly in her lap before she speaks again in her rich voice, "I have no other opinions unless I were to scrape the bottom of my metaphorical barrel on the topic."

Cesare chuckles, a tone that's not entirely dissimilar in sound to the color of honeyed liquor, if one were apt to make such a comparison. Straightening up from where he's leaned against the bar, he travels over to the assortment of chairs to deposit a fresh glass of rum for their host (who has not yet finished his first glass, but Cesare is anticipating needs) and then sinking into a chair himself with his own refilled refreshment. "I think you'll find that Whispers are generally inclined to tread precisely upon that fine line. Not to insinuate, of course, that you aren't perfectly capable of dealing with it yourself. As I said, I have every confidence in your ability to curtail any nonsense that should arise in your domain."

Merek of course will show up, and listen to things. He is dressed in his usual dark attire, while he finds a place to settle in and listen and also catch up.

"Perhaps, but a wise ruler recognizes that sometimes finding the right person for the job will yield positive results far faster. Merit's great like that," Hadrian answers back at Cesare. He sips from his glass of brandy, but upon it lowering from his lips again the Duke's gaze sweeps across the gathering, "I wish to thank you all for visiting the Empirical this evening and discussing the topic in question to the extent that you all have. Your engagement with the subject, even if it is merely a hypothetical question, is greatly appreciated and precisely in the spirit of one of the Salon's facets. Thank you all for your time this evening and may your respective returns home, to another venue, or the remainder of your stay later in the evening be fruitful and enlightening". He lifts his glass in acknowledge of those present as Hadrian's head bows forward in silent appreciation.