Midnight have been dismissed.

2 Ivory Shields have been dismissed.

Ryhalt has joined the a collection of small tables and chairs gathered together.

Nina has joined the a cluster of couches around a low table.

Mabelle has joined the a glossy walnut bar.

Dycard has joined the a cluster of couches around a low table.

Sydney has joined the a glossy walnut bar.

Winter, A Highhill Puppy arrives, following Kiera.

Teague comes into the room moving slowly his eyes scanning the room as he grins at Mabelle, as he heads right for her to sit down next to his friend."Good evening, Lady Mabelle Laurent. I hope you are well?" With that he is picking up a glass of wine with a frown."Do we have rum, not foot jucie?"

Nina doesn't mind wine. But she does mind the cold, so when she walks in, it's in a thick fur coat against all the snow. She removes it, shaking it off and laying it over the back of the couch near the fire. Beneath that is a brocade gown with a unique print, the colors gold and red. She gets wine in a color that matches her ensamble, and has a seat.

Teague has joined the a glossy walnut bar.

The Empirical plays host to another gathering of the Salon. The wine seems to have been watered down and the snacks sparsely circulated among the gathering. It's warm though! Plenty warm, as the fireplaces spread throughout the main chamber of the Empirical throws off heat. Judging by the fact that there's been no rumors of the Arvum Philosophical Society's sudden shift toward more meager means, it can only be assumed that it is an intentional practice having such modest refreshments.

Duke Hadrian Mazetti springs up from his chair with only the barest, briefest press of his palms to the arm of his seat. Upon rising up to his full height his gaze sweeps across the chamber, to those faces gathered around, and he promptly begins to speak with the faintest trace of a smile adorning the far corners of his mouth, "Thank you for coming, everyone. As always it is you, the member and guest, who makes the Salon's discussions what they are. It is you who gives thoughts a voice and breath to both imagination and theory,". Hadrian's brilliant green eyes turn this way and that, travel from one face to another, and with a final lazy sweep over the gathering before he finally continues, "Tonight's question is an easy one. While the answer may not be easy, it is a simple task to speak it. Is peace with Eurus possible? What milestones must we reach, collectively, to achieve that possibility?"

Stepping into the salon, Aaron pauses to scratch at his beard as he glances around the room. A moment later, he angles towards the bar, sliding onto one of the stools and collecting a glass for himself without really looking at the contents, nodding to those nearby.

Aaron has joined the a glossy walnut bar.

Jasper, an unflappable scoundrel, Aspen, a pale seraphinite green snake arrive, following Deva.

Eirene is a strange addition to a salon, with her black leathers and umbra overcoat keeping her warm. But there's a fire, if not decent snacks, and she pulls her own flask out of whiskey. She offers a salute of her flask to the host, her nephew, and she leans against a wall to listen to it all.

Mabelle has always wanted to attend one of these discussions, if only to marvel aside at the discussion. She bows her head politely to Hadrian as she enters and moves to sit at the bar, glancing at Teague as he joins her, murmuring something quietly to him.

Ryhalt sits at one of the small tables, relaxed. He meets Hadrian's question with a chuckle and a shake of his head.

Sydney hardly makes for a familiar face at these sorts of events - perhaps recognized from the Lower Boroughs, or any number of more fitness-oriented events. It's perhaps of little surprise that the very first thing she does is drift toward the bar, and lean her back up against its edge, elbows propped lazily on its surface as she leans back, occasionally pausing to separate a tangle from her mussed hair, or tug at her gloves.

The topic being presented briefly furrows her brow, and she shakes her head, "...Well, certainly it was possible before, we simply chose not to accept the terms of their peace. As they likely don't accept the terms of our war.

"

Looking more put together than she has most days lately, Deva arrives in a seasilk outfit instead of the usual well-worn leathers. Drawing back the hood of her (overly) fluffy cloak, she lingers by the entrance to look around at the crowd as she searches for familiar faces and an open seat. On her face is a small, but politely pleasant, smile for those she happens to make eye contact with.

Teague listens to the words of Mabelle, with a nodding of his head. His checks turning bright red, as he coughs softly. He is now quiet, as he listens to the words of Duke Mazetti, with a bowing of his head in respect. As he whispers back to Mabelle, in a hushed tone.

It isn't very often when that the lady joins a political discussion but the question posed by the Duke, seems reasonable, and possibly an easy one, as she gathers inside away from the door and in the back to listen and learn, to hear the way those around her think. She isn't interested in the refreshments at all, just warmth and hearing opinions at the moment. As she offers a nod of her head to those she knows. Teague and Mabelle. She does offer a respectful bow of her head toward the host as well, though she doesn't know him and waits patiently as she listens.

Sweeps into the salon, bright cerulean eyes flashing as he glanced about the room while he brushed flurries of snow from his shoulders and shrugged his cloak from over his shoulder. He offered a bow toward the Duke as he greeted the assembly before gliding with the predatory air of a shark to toss himself down onto one of the couches, crossing his right leg over his left and reaching into his coat to pull a flask from within.

He chortles to himself as he takes a pull from the simple metal container and shrugs while glancing around the room. "Is that -really- a question, my lord? Eurus demands slavery of us all,"

Relatively quiet at first, Aaron turns his gaze towards Sydney when his fellow bar-leaner speaks up. "I've never met a Eurusi," he muses, quietly, scratching at his beard. "I think it would depend," he speaks louder, now, "How inclined they are to avoid violence, whether as individuals or collectively."

"I think peace is possible," Nina says, speaking up with her glass in hand. "Most of the individuals I've met from Eurus are really quite nice, and their culture has a lot to share with ours."

Is Katarina Valardin the most famous Eurusi person among the peerage of the Compact? The answer: maybe! Certainly she's top two or three. She's also hard to miss. The woman wears a gold and purple gown printed with the designs of her birthland (the Dune Kingdom of Suj'abbat, for those keeping score at home) and a veil over most of her face, starting just below her eyes and draping freely down to her collarbone. The young woman is seated comfortably already when everyone else arrives, and doesn't get up to greet anyone -- though she's definitely polite and friendly with any who stop by her chair. She has a white wooden cane that she's apparently using to get around (might explain the not getting up thing) and a loose-knit blanket draped over her legs. As the conversation begins, she's silent for now, but golden eyes take in all.

Isabeau arrives at the Salon, having heard of a discussion that might be of interest to her diplomatically, her slender form draped in a ghostly white cloak, embroidered with amethyst, over a gown of cobalt seasilk embroidered with a white dragon. She slips in among the tables and couches, and finds a place to seat herself, dipping her head with a warm but quiet greeting to those she knows. A warm smile is directed toward Hadrian as he begins to speak, and she settles into a couch to listen. One of her attendants goes to fetch her a cup of hot tea, eschewing wine or other alcoholic beverages. For now, she listens quietly and attentively, her cobalt gaze drifting from person to person.

Mabelle confesses to Hadrian, "I do not think it is possible. Perhaps if the Eurusi were isolated as a people yes, as Nina says, they seem cultured and pleasant people, but I think there are darker forces at play behind the entire affair that make it impossible purposefully and likely, even if we were to achieve peace with Eurus or even win this war, they will find another enemy to rise upon us".

Isabeau has joined the a cluster of couches around a low table.

Petroc, the most unassuming man you have ever met, 2 Sanna House Guards, Bear arrive, following Cirroch.

Deva has joined the a collection of small tables and chairs gathered together.

Eirene drawls in her raspy voice, "Not as long as Alaric is the Dune Emperor," is her contribution. "People would need to break away from him and the Prophet first, as some have done."

Kiera wanders into the event, only her second of this type and finds a seat "Isn't it neccessary to distinguish between the eurisi people and those currently in power over the eurisi people,I mean there is currently a civil war there and magisters. no peace is possible with dune emporer but we look to a time when he is dealt with. otherwise what's the point

Teague is quiet as he picks up the glass sipping it slowly, rising towards the host with a wide smile. His eyes studying the room, as he listens to the voices, after Mabelle speaks as he stands slowly, as he clears his throat. But the words, are not coming out yet, as if he is still thinking on them.

"Darker forces?" Nina asks, in a guileless way as she looks at Mabelle. "But that doesn't mean the people themselves are beyond redemption, surely. That's just what they call a few bad apples!"

As Deva sinks into a seat, she looks to Eirene with a keen flicker of curiosity in her eyes. "Makes sense," she murmurs in agreement, dipping her head a few times as she settles in. Her hand curls around a glass as soon as she's brought one, no matter what it is inside.

Hadrian's hand rises up and a finger extends toward Dycard's voice, rather than the man himself, "Does it? Or does a group of tyrants seek to arrest our free will from us? We have plenty of the Eurus who have joined us here in Arx and even began to spread out into other holdings of the Compact". Hadrian's gaze finally seems to follow his finger and turn his attention upon Dycard. The faint smile remains at the corners of his mouth before he offers a soft dip of his chin, a subdued nod of his head, before he finally continues, "We can look to the Compact itself to recognize that painting so broadly with stereotypes is rarely an accurate thing. Attend one party and you'll find yourself realizing that not every Oathlander is a prude. You aren't mistaken in the fact that Eurus would like to make us slaves, but I do not believe that is a belief held by the commoner".

Eirene's contribution earns a nod from Hadrian, though he does not address it. Those others whom speak; Sydney, Nina, Mabelle, Aaron, and others receive the attention of the host. Along with a nod, of course. Acknowledgment that he did hear them. Though after a moment his smile returns, his gaze shifts to Isabeau, and that transforms into the splash of a grin for a moment before the Duke concludes, "Your gown looks breathtaking this evening, my lady". Then back to the discussion he goes with another nod, "Please, carry on with your thoughts, everyone. This is a discussion. So, please, discuss."

Sydney plucks up a particularly lame and dry cracker and lazily wags it in Dycard's direction, "Oh, I don't know. I think they might be rather more willing to come the negotiating table if we hadn't cast the first blow. We rather instigated this, much as we choose to ignore that fact. And I do hope more of House Thrax can educate me on the matter of slavery, some day."

Sydney's brows bounce at Eirene's words, and she murmurs, "...Asking an occupied land to rise against the laws of their land while providing them little hope by way of succor save at the end of a sword is something of an ask, wouldn't you say? I know if our Alaric were similarly afflicted, we'd struggle to buck the rank and file of our own nation."

Leaning forward in his seat and propping an elbow up on his knee, Dycard's head listed to the side as he regarded Nina incredulously. His grin returned as he picked himself back up and tossed his free arm over the back of his sofa, waving the hand holding his flask in the direction of Eirene as he lifted his voice slightly, "Exactly, the Prophet and his puppet emperor will allow us peace when all of Arx and our people lie in chains. You think the people have a say? Look at our own city - look at what happened when the Lowers were starving when our harbor was blockaded by a whirlpool."

He moved to take a drink of his flask before rolling his eyes and lowering it back toward his lap, "We can have peace with Eurus very easily - surrender. I ferried plenty of perfectly pleasant Eurusi refugees about the Compact after Sungreet, but they don't dictate policy for their Prophet or his Huntsmen."

Eirene's met by her servant, who was met by another servant. She listens and nods. The gathering is given a salute with her flask and she goes out into the freezing cold. "Didn't say it was easy or plausible," she replies to Sydney as she leaves.

Planchet the Lycene maggiordome, Carissa, a Southport bodyguard leave, following Eirene.

Cirroch strides in with a single motion of the heavy fur coat being drawn off and handed over to the assistant after a thoughtful fold to the coat. Then a nod to the guards to stick to the sides or outside of the room as he continues over to pick up a wine glass. A sniff to the liquid before a small grin and the smallest of sips as he is then turning to survey the room.

Mabelle confirms to Nina, "We are saying the same thing. The people themselves as always, have not to do with the decisions of those who rule over them."

"Institutions, as much as people, must be overcome," Aaron muses aloud. "Customs, traditions, strictures and beliefs. If you are born to something and no nothing else..." he trails off thoughtfully, scratching at his beard again.

As Hadrian speaks to her, Isabeau favors him with a warm smile. "Thank you, my lord. Hadrian, it is been too long," she says, her words rolling off the tongue in a warm contralto. But she does not interrupt the discussion further, instead focusing her attention once more on what is being said. Still she does not speak her opinion, listening instead. Learning. She's been out of the loop for a while. Her attendant brings her tea, and she sips it quietly, having little to add of her own thoughts for the moment.

Nina thinks again about what Mabelle said, and has another drink. "I see. So peace is possible when those who don't want it have been eliminated some way. That's what you're saying?"

Scratching his sidewhisker, Ryhalt listens to both sides. "As I understand it Eurus doesn't actually exist, its our term for a group of Kingdoms as large as ours or more." He glances sideways to Katarina. "From what I've heard some have fallen to the powers that seek to corrupt them while others remain at war. There is no peace with the forces that control those lands for they want not just us to be slaves or to die, but to end the world as we know it. That there are good doesn't eliminate the fact that most of them are powerless to stop the forces that brought their lands to ruin or seek to spread such to Avrum."

Cirroch has joined the a cluster of couches around a low table.

Teague stands as his voice booms out."I think it has been said many times already, what is this force that corrupts them, that directs them to do as they do? Maybe, that is the thing we should be focused on, or helping them rebel and to get free enough to have the choice to pick the compact?" His hand is brings his glass of wine to his lips after his voice booms out into the hall.

Mabelle inclines her head politely to Isabeau, but her attention is set on Nina, "No, I think perhaps those who do not want peace can be bridged as well with terms if they are open to listen to them. However, as ruling goes, if your ruler decides to attack, the common man has little decision in that matter, sad as it is, especially if you are in position of a slave. I do believe however, the leadership of Eurus is not one to even consider peace because they are tainted by", she tries hard not to include magic in this discussion, "Forces who are trying to destroy us for years, for centuries and we are dealing with them in many fronts, not just the Eurusi one".

"What do we have to offer Eurus accept the very same blood and death that they offer us? Their victory would bring the commonfolk peace. Our victory would bring their commonfolk peace. There is a not inconsiderable difference in the /means/ of that peace, but the result is the same. We squabbled over an island," Sydney wags her cracker yet again, as though wielding a baton. Probably because it looks so dry that it's not suitable for eating, "And we started this war. We galvanized it, and made it impossible for talks to come to fruition." She takes a chomp at the cracker anyway, giving a face of immediate regret.

"Puts them in a hard spot to accept any peace we could offer. As for darkness... are we pretending this is a trait exclusive to Eurus? That's naive, at best."

Nina looks at Sydney, and nods a few times as she takes in the points she's making, before looking back at Mabelle with consderation. But she doesn't interrupt, curious where this will go exactly. "I suppose it also seems naive to say we could just destroy all the dark things."

Something which Sydney says bring Hadrian's attention in her direction. He considers her for a time, even as he finally begins to slowly sink back into the seat of his chair. One leg is ultimately thrown up and over one arm of his chair, settling into a half-turned recline afforded to him by that leg being moved out of the space of a typical sitting position. He considers Sydney for a moment longer before his chin inclines and he asks, "You're absolutely right in pointing out that we threw the first punch. Surely there will be some - perhaps not here - who would try to do the usual song-and-dance of trying to avoid accountability 'no, they made the first aggressive act by having slaves, we were just doing the RIGHT thing' or some such". The very tip of Hadrian's tongue shifts forward to trace along the point of an incisor, before it withdraws again and he continues once more with another subdued nod of his head, "So what is the path forward?" The question is asked of Sydney, but judging by the sweep of his gaze across the gathering, it's likely asked of the whole, "Must we win the war before peace or negotiation is possible? Have we reached a point of such bitterness that we'll need enough bloodletting to occur before everyone will see the negotiating table as a viable solution?"

Clarisse continues to listen standing in the back, watching the differing opinions, a thoughtful expression on her face. Her eyes flickering Nina's way and she bites her lip at the comment, shaking her head a bit without saying a word, as she takes in more of what Hadrian offers on his perspective.

Kiera turns her head toward Aaron with a curious gaze as she does not know him "War should always be fought with the aim of securing eventual peace but those who threaten our aim and our peace must be deat with. we cannot lump them all together and no it certainly isn't exclusive to eurus and therein lies my main concern with this war. two mant enemies on too many sides

Finally taking a long draught from his flask, Dycard lets out a laugh at Teague's question, his eyes darting knowingly about the salon to look for some kind of reaction. He continues to listen for a beat, running a hand through his hair to brush stray locks of hair from his face. "Regardless of the morality of the masses, the fact of the matter is that the Prophet of the Sands serves a purpose at ends to our own, whereas our own king - thankfully - has our best interest at heart. The burden lies with us, as representatives of the peerage, to uphold that standard rather than pursue our own ends." He pauses, taking a breath and flashing his smile again, "The good Duke Hadrian is correct that we have to accept culpability in our part of things, but we have only one path forward - support the Crown, and ensure that we prevent the spread of slavery and worship of false idols."

"Once we have secured our external borders, we can see to righting the ship insofar as our internal affairs are concerned and correcting the immorality that plagues our own streets."

Mabelle agrees with Sydney, "Not exclusive to Eurus, no." Her eyes move to Nina and she smiles, "Can we? No. Could we? Maybe". She does not seem overly keen to elaborate about -that-. "Bloodshed seems inevitable but I honestly doubt it will subdue the aggression considering those spearheading it. No matter how many will lose their lives, even if they lose they will just sit there for a few years maybe to lick their wounds and return. This is not about the people or slavery. If they do not return as themselves, they will return from another angle. Even if they give us peace is will not be perpetual", she concludes sincerely, "I have no solution, I came to see if someone else has one", she winks to Hadrian.

Ryhalt looking to Teague, he says, "Fell creatures of the Abyss. Several of them working in cooperation. Several of whom are also working within our own lands and have been long before contest over the Saffron Chains." He glances to Hadrian as he speaks again. "As he says," he gestures towards Dycard, "there is no negotiation with people who wish to enslave you. There isn't going to be a point where if we do enough damage to them that they will go away quietly."

Sydney feels the weight of Hadrian's gaze upon her and meets it with her own, a smile working its way onto her features, "...Peace is impossible, because we have committed to it being an impossibility. I don't doubt the ghastly things I've heard of the Dune Emperor's Reign, so it makes it especially difficult, as peace talks would require concessions which he is unlikely to grant, and concessions we will most certainly not grant. If there is no dialog, there is no diplomacy."

There's a troubled tension coiling in Deva's shoulders and on her face. After finishing the last of her drink she abruptly excuses herself, hands sliding into the pockets of her cloak as she slips out into the crisp winter air.

Deva has left the a collection of small tables and chairs gathered together.

Jasper, an unflappable scoundrel, Aspen, a pale seraphinite green snake leave, following Deva.

Teague nods toeards Ryhalt as he hears these words, as he sips his wine as he sits back down, as if he had a point to prove.

"It might be hard to argue for peace when we have a Carnifex who has called a Crusade against them," Aaron observes, after a beat. "I admit, I don't remember exactly what he said, but... you know. Those aren't exactly peaceful notions. War with an aim for peace is.." he glances at Kiera. "I don't want to say fanciful. But it's a lot harder to stop a war than start one."

Cirroch has been taking in the argument, a little nod, or a little slow to the points that make sense here or there. Standing up from his seat, then with the start of a loud /not at all inside voice/ "In the end of any war it doesn't matter who struck first!" A light cough and another small sip of the wine, then in a proper inside voice, "The difference is that we would like to strike a peace with them? Or is it simply to bring another to the table to size up who exactly we're fighting?"

Nina looks surprised at Aaron's comment. "If not hoping for peace eventually, what other purpose is there for war?" she asks.

Clarisse offers softly, "Peace will have to come with compromise that would be painful for both sides, whhat would we be willing to give up, without giving up our freedom to have peace?" She shrugs and looks around the room.

"Duke Hadrian, may I...?" Princess Katarina speaks up, at last. Her voice is unmistakably marked by a Dune Kingdoms accent -- she puts em-PHA-sis on 'wrong' syl-LAB-les in her Arvani, and though there are traces of an Oathlands accent that's built up over time, her vowel sounds are usually either pulled taut like drumskins or cored clear through from one side to the other. "I would put it to the room: what does your vision of peace with the Dune Kingdoms look like, when you think of it? Is 'peace' an abstraction that we speak of, simply the absence of war, or is it something more concrete in your minds...~?"

"Plenty," Aaron answers Nina with a shift of his shoulders. "Power. Domination. Trade expansion. Maybe even just the grass looks greener. Open any history book and half the tales will tell stories of wars started over misunderstandings or absurdities. There was one Baron who started this war with another Baron, believing the man had poisoned his herd of sheep. Turns out the feed had gone sour, but he didn't want to wear the embarrassment. Pride," he adds that to the list with a gruff laugh.

"I disagree. There is a point that we do enough damage to them that they - well, maybe not go away quietly? But at least be open to alternative solutions. Of course, that'd mean a pile of bodies along the way, and ultimately the death of a figurehead or a dozen? But that's the simplest solution. The solution achieved at the business end of a hammer". Aaron's comments though draw Hadrian's attention around and his lips purse together. He considers the bearded man briefly, the Duke's jaw working about before finally his chin inclines ever so slightly to signal his acknowledgment of the remark before that chin-lift turns into a chin-fall with his nod, "You are, of course, not wrong. That's the beauty of these discussions though. They're hypothetical. A glorified 'what if' on the subject of 'how to' achieve a goal".

Then Katarina's voice issues forth and Hadrian's chin drifts around to regard the Valardin-adopted princess. He considers her and her question for a moment, but inevitably acquiesce to her desires with a simple nod of his head, "Of course, my lady. You're among the subject matter experts. Only a fool would deny your contribution."

Nina asks Clarisse, "Why would we have to give up our freedom?" she asks. She finishes her glass of wine off. "I don't think how a truce compromise works is that the Emperor says something like 'I'm sorry, but you all have to have slaves now.'" She giggles a bit at the thought. She looks at Aaron and listens to what he has to say... then gets more wine. It's not strong enough, she thinks. "Right. But then after the war is over, conquest or not... it's peace one way or another!"

Kiera nods back at aaron "so What are to aim for then. Endless blood shed slaughter of hundreds of thousands. What is it we deem victory and I fear you have it backwards lord blackshore. because we did not see to our first, conflict rages in the mourning isles and ivan helanthus claims himself a voice of reason and spreads lies

Teague leans back as he listens now his hand is brings his drink to his lips for a long sip of it. His eyes moving from person to person, as they linger on his sister.

"I've heard," Aaron says, half in answer to Nina, "There are ex-Eurusi slaves living in Arx. I wonder if they'd consider the cities they resided in peaceful or not?" He doesn't seem to know the answer either, shrugging. Kiera's address of him takes him by surprise. "I'm afraid you have me mistaken. I'm no lord, my lady. Though you do have the advantage of me." He holds his hands up, as if to quell her words. "The lady," with a nod to Nina, "Asked why people war. I answered. I'm not arguing for it."

Clarisse clarifies to Nina, "My apologies for the misunderstanding, I am not saying we would have to give up our freedom, I am saying what are we willing to give up, without giving up our freedom, to see peace? To me peace is far more important to a war, but it takes courageous people to actually take be willing to try for peace, when they have made a mistake."

Sydney turns her focus to Katarina, and her smile runs thin, "...My vision of peace would be to surrender the whole of the Saffron Chain to Eurus, in exchange for reforms. Ease these meaningless large-scale conflicts. And then pluck the problem at the root at a time where their power is more secure, or our allies more numerous. We throw countless lives at this problem, where careful diplomacy and a dagger in the dark would have sufficed."

Mabelle replies to Nina, "I do not think it applies here but conquest. Of lands. Or if you are maglomaniac enough to force their view of the world of another, getting possession of means. War was not invented to lead to peace, in most cases anyway". Apparently repeating what Aaron said. She seems to consider Katarina's words. "I had no considered that, to be honest. I'm not sure if for them it will mean they will be free from their chains. I am uncertain what it means for us. - For me".

"Ah!" Nina nods to Clarisse and then considers. "That makes more sense. But I guess I don't have a good answer for what I'd be willing to give up! It seems so open-ended."

Clarisse smiles understandingly to Nina, "That is why solutions require everyone to be open minded and not short sighted. Sadly it is not easy, when everyone is asked to make concessions to find a solution. Those at the peace table, are trying to speak for everyone, when not everyone is represented. Perhaps bringing a slave to the table, and untying his bonds, letting him speak his thoughts, without reprucussions would provide a great deal of insight to those willing to fight for his freedom. As those you are willing to lay down your life for." She offers her thoughts for what they may be worth as a young lady and healer.

Snorts in laughter again, tossing his head back over the back of his seat. "Yes, making peace with a foreign power whos navy outmatches our own - and as Lady Kiera has pointed out, has supporters within our own borders - by offering them holdings on our own soil, is the key to securing a lasting peace. Because they will stop once we have offered them the olive branch."

The youngest of Blackshore's sons sits back upright and glances over the room, "The only way to secure a lasting peace is to shatter the Eurusi navy while it has been split and prevent them from projecting their force across the sea for at least a generation or two. The Prophet has agents in the city -at this very moment- and we think there is some amicable peace that can be made through diplomacy?"

"Peace would mean a solution far, far better than the one that brought about the Reckoning as it is dealing with trying to stop the same forces. We, who have far, far less knowledge that our forebearers. Just a tad arrogant of us. If we root at the puppet leaders that are doing the bidding of their masters it'll change nothing. They will find another. The first step is to survive while we race to regain knowledge we have lost." Ryhalt shrugs slightly.

Sydney's eyes turn toward Dycard, and her smile becomes a rather more toxic thing, brandished rather than offered. "The Saffron Chain was never truly ours until Pravus decided they needed it. And now they have it, and now we have a war. What a /fantastic/ trade."

As the discussion progresses, Isabeau listens. She notices Mabelle's inclination of the head, and dips her head in return. Her blue eyes drift to this or that person as they speak. She sips her tea slowly, tucked into the corner of the couch she has chosen, feet crossed at the ankles.

"Unfortunately," she speaks up delicately, after a moment, "there may not be a path forward to peace just now. Sometimes, you must use the hammer of war, before the velvet gloved hand of diplomacy is offered. Perhaps they can be convinced to come to the negotiating table eventually, or perhaps they will force us to. Unfortunately, what seems to be the case here is that Alaric III has challenged the credibility of Alaric IV's claim to the Elfbone Throne, and that gives him a particularly strong position for those traditionalists who might lean toward a similar viewpoint. He has a clarity of purpose that some may choose to stand behind, and I think that is the crux of our current crisis, unmentionable dark forces aside. Not all are aware of the deeper game, and even I find myself foundering a little in understanding of it at times."

She pauses for a sip of tea, then continues, "I think the question we must ask ourselves is, how can we strengthen the Compact's position at the bargaining table, should negotiations become a viable option? Right now, there is a bit of a schism within the Compact, and I don't think we should overlook how important that is, and how it affects our position with regards to the overall Eurusi threat."

Teague listens to it all sipping his wine, as he lenas against the bar his hand is resting there to cradle his head.

While the gathering begins to speak among themselves and the discussion begins to truly unfold, that provides ample opportunity for Duke Hadrian Mazetti to settle into his seat with his glass of watered down wine and a stale cracker. He watches, brilliant green eyes dancing about from one speaker to another, observing the conversation and its speakers as it bounces from one mind and mouth to another. Then Isabeau's observations and thoughts are presented, which draw the full attention of the Hydra's Duke around to regard her. The words seem to appeal to Hadrian, judging by the few slow nods that he offers in return. Though once again he does not speak in answer to those words. Instead Hadrian's chin shifts, which in turn drags his eyes across the gathering, likely in search of who may challenge the thought with their own. A veritable chariot destruction derby of personal belief, observations, theories, and the like.

Kiera nods "If all eyes turn outward they take us from within. Other enemies will not wait patiently until we have signaled we are ready to deal with them like the below at the sound of a hunt" she gives sydney a crooked smile at her last words

Katarina continues to listen, and when Isabeau speaks, she lifts her cane for a moment. "Imagine," Katarina says, "that you are a fish, and that someone comes to you and asks if you would like to leave the water and come fly through the clouds with them." She pauses, and lifts her brows very faintly. "If you are a fish, your response is probably to wonder what flying is. And what clouds are. And, indeed, what someone is talking about when they say 'water.' If you wish to negotiate with the people of my birthland -- the people, and not their masters -- you seek to negotiate with the fish who has swam in water its entire life, without ever having to stop and think about what water is, because there has simply never /been/ anything else around it."

Ryhalt nods to Kiera in agreement. "Quite so. The threat from the Dune Kingdoms is just a battle in the overall war." He also nods in understanding and agreement of Katrina's point.

Merek walks along and into the place to listen to the discussion, while he makes a way to a place to settle in.

Finally, Aaron lifts his glass and downs most of the contents seemingly without stopping to enjoy it. Maybe he's used to less-fine vintages. "Anyway. I'm no diplomat, though it seems like those skills will be useful, eventually. One hopes."

Sydney leans rather more heavily back against the bar with her elbows, brows lifting at Katarina's choice of words, and she cavalierly offers, "Well. We do have a flying ship straight out of the storybooks at our disposal. I can think of few better vessels for making fish fly." She seems to have missed the point.

Mabelle reaches over to the bar to collect a glass of rum, handing it to her guard to taste before she drinks it herself. Bowing her head to Isabeau and noticing some share her opinion though voice is differently, she settles for drinking for a moment. Mabelle listens to Katarina and asks her, "But are we negotiating with the fish? No, we are negotiating with the masters of the fish who do know what it is to fly. I'm sorry to say that but the people in this conflict are not significant as a force. Not because they are not significant period, because if their masters are slavers, they do not exactly take their opinion into consideration".

Nina listens now to Isabeau, who is talking of a schism. "I do wish I was better at international politics, myself." Sydney's comment surprises her, and she blinks a few times.

"The Dune Kingdoms will be free," Katarina replies to Mabelle with the confidence of someone who's both good at public speaking and wearing a mask. "That is when true peace will flower."

Mabelle smiles warmly to Katarina, "I hope so. For the good of the people", alllllways a minister of population that one.

Pushes himself up from his seat, his countenance one of frustrated incredulity as he pads across the salon toward the bar to order a glass of rum, stuffing his flask back into his coat as he glances over toward Sydney, and then Katarina in turn while he waited on his drink. "Freedom in the Dune Kingdoms is a loftier goal than honest morality in Arx. This war is simply an extension of diplomacy through force of arms. In order to bring Eurus to the negotiating table we must first disarm them."

Teague listens more as he emptys his glass of the water laced wine, as he pushes the empty away from him. His eyes moving from speaker to speaker, as that massive man stands up now. His hand is rubbing along his chest, as he thumps it with his fist.

Sydney takes a sip of watered wine, and mutters under her breath, "...Oh, I hardly disagree. We've backed ourselves into a corner. And it's undeniable, A great many things flower after being well-watered with blood and well-fertilized with the lives of men and women caught in between the decrees of warring kings."

Isabeau inclines her head to Katarina, offering the Princess a smile. "I do understand your point, and it is an apt metaphor. The people of Eurus know only what they have experienced. The introduction of new ideas must be a part of making any talk of piece work. But that is part of a broader whole." She nods to what Mabelle says, and adds, "The power of persuasion over the people is indeed a most powerful tool. So how do we shift the perspective, and make our position stronger in the eyes of the people... both Eurusi, and those in the Compact who have broken away? We are already at war, and that must play out as it will. But, might I suggest the possibility of a sweeping propaganda campaign? Are all Eurusi enslaved, or are those who might be swayed?" she asks, turning her gaze back to Katarina curiously.

Kiera hms "You wish to negotiate with someone who seeks our throne or are you looking past the dune emporor

Mabelle moves her fingers contemplatingly over the swan surrounding her neck, "Perhaps a few stealthy rescue missions of some more people would, but propaganda is a tool not to belittle. I for one would be happy to donate my voice to that, if it would come to that".

"I'm pretty good at that sort of thing too," Nina says, with a smile at Mabelle and a nod of her head, "But. What good is music for? Lots of things!"

Clarisse looks up to Teague and gently reaches out to squeeze her brothers hand, and offers a reassuring nod to Mabelle but otherwise for the moment without to much to contribute she just turns inwardly thoughtful, considering options from the perspective of a healer.

Rubbing at his beard, Aaron glances at Mabelle curiously. "We can't just... go over, there, right? It's... months away from Arx?"

"I wish I could go!" Nina says with a whistful look. "I know the tales are scary sometimes but... that's where adventures happen. It would be so neat to visit. Maybe I could bring song to the songless city. What a dream it would be."

"Every Kingdom is different," Katarina says. "Even the differences between the lands of Arvum pale compare to the differences from one Dune Kingdom to another. But slavery is an institution there -- as Princess of Suj'abbat, my family owned many." Katarina bristles in admitting it -- it's clear from her tone that she feels the shame of such a public admission. "In the Kingdom of Skal'daja, slavery is... everything. It is what their culture, their lives are built around. I have heard whispers of rebellions against the masters and Alaric III being fomented, but... only whispers. I've yet to learn of anything I can myself aid, let alone recruit further aid, otherwise I would hardly be doing anything else~. Propaganda might be useful -- but shaking the confidence in the masters must be done first. By word or by deed." Katarina's eyes turn to Aaron. "The voyage is long," she says, and then makes no secret of how ominous this next part is: "...and costly."

Mabelle laughs helplessly at Nina, "I meant speech, not my non existant singing voice. If they heard that, they will never come with us!". She then confirms to Aaron, "No we cant, but if their fleets are camped closer, we can try those. Maybe. I am not mind for military attempts".

"There's credibility to that belief," Hadrian remarks with a nod after Dycard venturing off toward the bar. The Duke, however, remains seated. In addition he remains attentive to the gathering, its conversation, and the points made along the way. A nod is given first to Dycard before Hadrian comments, "It's not out of pride or vanity that we must achieve that. It solely comes to the fact that in order to be taken as a serious threat to them, victories must be achieved and defeats mitigated or otherwise reduced in their overall impact, as much as possible". Then Hadrian's attention flickers toward Sydney, a thoughtful consideration given to her words, and finally a nod of acceptance given in regard to them. "Much like some of the conversations unfolding here, tonight. There are valid points coming from many different sides. Consider those our warring kings and we will see the difficulty of seeing the right path."

Onward to Isabeau does Hadrian's attention go. He considers her, her words, and finally answers them with a soft smile and another nod, "The one problem that I see with the prospect of a sweeping propaganda campaign? Mind, it's not a bad idea. Demoralizing the enemy's army, while of uncertain effect? Can be a worthwhile endeavor. It is easy for us to see the Eurusi as blind, obedient followers. They are foreign to us, as we are them. It's easy to attribute all manner of qualities to an adversary, real or perceived. While they may be perceived as unable or incapable of stepping away from the lash? Sungreet did show otherwise."

He falls into silence though, because Hadrian's attention drifts back around to regard Katarina as she continues on with her own experiences. That is when the Duke's mouth shuts and his ears, and eyes, become focused on a lone speaker.

Teague looks at Katarina."If you are riding into that place, you may count on my ax. I wish to help with such a plan, I'm not good at words, but I'm good at deeds. I will protect, with myself and the Charon army any that wish such a mission! I wish, to aid this fight for peace."

Mabelle purses her lips at Katarina's commentary, "If it is so embedded in them.. ", the thought is then drifted as Mabelle sinks into contemplation with her drink as she encounters something she did not consider.

With a shake of his head, Aaron gives a grin. Katarina's attempt at spooky intimidation is wasted on the man, because the tailor takes her at her literal word, "Nothing I could afford, for sure. But I'm no military leader, either," he appears to be agreeing with Mabelle. "Much as I'd like to see it, someone has to keep the Lighthouse going."

Katarina leans back in her chair somewhat. "If all you have known your entire life is the voice of your master... even if your master is cruel and beats you... she is your master. We must interrupt that, otherwise we are merely outsiders -- and a well-broken slave will most often trust the master they know over the outside that they do not." Though her lips are covered, her smile is obvious in her eyes as she nods to Teague, and then she gives Aaron a nod as well. "I will see my birthland freed, and all the Kingdoms. But... it is a long road that we have only just begun."

Sydney sets her cup down and murmurs, "Sungreet was also a /massacre/. The losses were breathtakingly high, even if when the dust settled we found ourselves wounded the least." Her voice raises as she addresses Hadrian, "...The only true victories were won behind closed doors and in the darkness. The rest was senseless bloodshed, by all accounts. I wasn't there, but the counts of the dead are..." She grinds her teeth, "That we continue to push for a frontal assault is, frankly, a fool's errand. We are outdisciplined and outmatched in such an effort. The lesson from Sungreet ought to have been that /finesse/ can turn the tides, but we keep sacrificing all such gains with single-minded aggression, because we're /angry/. A quicker way to lose a fight I've not seen, and I've seen my fair share."

"Shaking the confidence of the masters," Nina says thoughtfully. "We could encourage slave uprise and rebellion. There's surely more slaves than masters."

Mabelle asks Nina, "Yes but how? How do you promise them things they are not familiar with as a concept?"

Cirroch has left the a cluster of couches around a low table.

The Telmar Duchess turns her eyes to Mabelle, and she curves her lips in a smile. "Perhaps," she says, with a glance at Nina, "there is something that can be done, with enough voices, skilled in the power of persuasion. Perhaps we might discuss it more at a later time?" she asks the pair. Her gaze drifts to Katarina, inclusing of the Eurusi princess, turned Valardin princess. Her attention remains locked on Katarina then, and she listens with a curious and attentive ear to the description of the different people of the Dune Kingdoms, particularly. "I see," she murmurs. "I can see that it is a way of life... and not an easy thing to change. But, if you would seek any help on the propaganda front, I am not unskilled in that arena." It's an offer, for certain.

Her gaze drifts to Hadrian then, listening as he speaks of seeing the Eurusi as blind, and she inclines her head. "I do think it would be a mistake to generalize, and attribute a single quality to every member of Eurusi society, or even assume that all of those who are enslaved, feel one way or another about their enslavement. I am certain they must all be as varied as those of us in the Compact, and have their own thoughts and motiviations, aside from their... overlords. The trick is, how to understand them better, and use that to our advantage," she says. She glances to Aaron curiously as he mentions a lighthouse, and eyes him a moment. "The Lighthouse?" she asks curiously, lowering her voice to him as a curious aside.

Then her attention is captured by Sydney and her description of the massacre at Sungreet, riveted by the description.

Kiera looks to katarina "Hhow do we shake the confidence of those who may legitimately outmach us on several counts

Mabelle inclines her head to Isabeau, "Gladly."

"You explain it better," Nina says, looking at Mabelle. "I know you don't sing and that's fine. But there is a rule in theater that you sing when your heart is so full that it can no longer contain its feeling with prose alone. And when the singing fails then, after that, you dance." She rises to her feet. "If you cannot teach slaves freedom... you can teach them dance, and freedom will follow."

Sydney makes a frustrated sound, "...That's... a lovely sentiment, but I don't think anyone has danced themself free of writ, either."

Ryhalt smiles lightly, nodding to Syndey's peace. "I concur that any attempt to attack the Dune Kingdoms on their own soil is foolhardy at best. They would dearly love us to do that so that they can snatch up our lands behind us with the enemies we have here." He also nods agreement to her point in response to Nina, looking grim for a few moments.

Clarisse bites her lip a moment and tries to think of the best way to phrase her thoughts aloud, "What if there was a different type of campaign. If you want to teach the slaves there is a better, life, buy the slaves from their slave masters, teach them, and then free them with new skills that they can use to better the community. It is a thought anyway, less expensive than all the lives being lost to war."

Teague looks towards his sister as he lowers himself back to the stool. As it fights to support his weight with a loud creeking sound, as he thinks for a moment.

"Yeah, you know. Big, tall thing. Big light." Aaron waves vaguely in the direction of the lighthouse of Arx with a smile. "She isn't what she used to be, but she's something special, all the same."

Mabelle grins at Nina and then at Sydney, "Pretty sure it was a metaphore. It will require a thinking team, maybe with the help of the Princess", she smiles toward Katarina.

"Oh," Hadrian's attention sweeps aside to regard Sydney. He considers her for a long, silent moment before his head shakes from side to side, "By no means am I proclaiming Sungreet, its strategies, or any of it a great success. I am speaking to this notion that because there is a master, that a slave doesn't yearn to be free by nature. We saw with Sungreet that even the lash being present can result in rebellion. There just has to be a path toward something better. Happy sentiments and good feelings don't win wars, surely, but from a morale standpoint? Living better and making that visible? Can shake the resolve of the less steadfast and resolute". Again Hadrian goes quiet as his attention drifts across the gathering once more. He nods once or twice, before finally his voice rises up once again, "I think that this discussion has been fantastic. It's been the best one in quite some time and I thank you, each of you, for your contributions to it. All of you? Do feel free to continue. For now though? I must retire to my office and have some... real wine," Hadrian remarks with a flicker of a glance to his glass of watered down wine, then back to the gathering as a whole as the Duke begins to rise up to his feet. Soon enough Luigi, the stocky man with the smoothly shaved head and immense moustache soon arrives to collect the Duke's glass and do all those other Luigi-specific tasks.

Teague is overheard praising Hadrian.

As much as Clarisse would like to stay, she nods to her brother, and heads the way of her assistant, her time is being called away for some more urgent matters, for the moment. "I apologize Brother, but I must go." She offers that nod to Hardian as well as a respectful curtsey before she departs."

Nina sighs, as the truth of the matter does throw some cold water on her fairy tale ambitions. But as she is already on her feet... she picks her coat up. "Thank you, for hosting," she says to Hadrian. "It was truly inspiring."

Isabeau looks at Aaron as he speaks, and gives a soft laugh. "I know what a lighthouse is. I suppose, my question was meant to infer that you look after it? Isabeau Telmar, by the way," she adds, by way of introduction. "So you tend to the lighthouse?" she asks, much more specifically. "How interesting. I always wondered who keeps it going," she says with an easy smile. She turns her attention back to Hadrian then, as he begins to take his leave. "Thank you for hosting this most interesting discussion, Marquis." She lifts her teacup to him, and then finishes her tea.

Nina is overheard praising Hadrian.

Kiera is overheard praising Hadrian: a much need discussion and forum

Clarisse is overheard praising Hadrian.

Isabeau is overheard praising Hadrian.

"I do not think that 'blind' is inappropriate," Katarina notes. "The dark forces at the core of the Dune Kingdoms' power structure /keep/ people blind. That is how they remain powerful, and how those under them remain weak. I, a Princess, heiress to the Suj'abbati throne, was sixteen years old when I first discovered that there was any god not named Veil." Katarina makes a hand gesture as if to say, 'and you can imagine the rest.' "A thinking team, yes." Katarina turns to Hadrian: "Duke, we must do this again soon. Thank you for arranging it. Hopefully by the next one I will be able to curtsy without wobbling."

Clarisse is overheard praising Katarina.

Clarisse is overheard praising Mabelle.

Aaron is overheard praising Hadrian.

Mabelle smiles easily to Hadrian, "Thank you for hosting this discussion, I always wanted to attend one of your salons".

Teague slips to his feet as he waves towards the others."Thank you for this venue to discuss, now I most away to train my troops." With that he is gone, as he is heading out into the world.

Teague has left the a glossy walnut bar.

As the formal talks come to a close, Sydney eases up to her feet and dusts her hands uncomfortably over her elbows, "Mmnph. There's never a bartop that ain't sticky by some measure, and don't let anyone tell you different." She spits into her palm and scrubs unhappily at her elbow.

"But aye. A good discussion. One to think about, if nothing else."

"That's right," Aaron answers Isabeau with a smile. "Been me for... I don't know, years. Aaron Blackburn," he adds. "She doesn't need much to keep her going, honestly. Just some polish and gusto now and then." He, too, rises as the discussions come to a close, nodding towards Hadrian. "Thank you for hosting. Some interesting points of view."

Kiera nods "I have no sword to lend s war but will gladly lend my voice and mind

Upon his rising up, Hadrian pauses. He considers Luigi, he considers the glass that is shifted from his hand and into Luigi's. Then something seems to pop off inside his head. An idea, for whatever reason, inspired by the passing of the wine glass from himself to his lawyer, right-hand man, aide, confidante, main guy, majordomo, first line of defense, and all the other roles which Luigi is often proclaimed to play. Then Hadrian's attention drifts back to the gathering and his chin inclines ever so slightly to the group brought together, "Should there be a topic you would like to see - or hear as it were - discussed in a future Salon gathering? Please, write to me, strike up a conversation about it, tickle my interest. Maybe we'll make it the focus of my next lazy, winter evening discussions. All of you... take care of yourselves," the Duke remarks with a seemingly playful wink, before he begins to make for the atrium and, presumably, his office beyond that.