Written By Shard
Feb. 4, 2019, 6:26 a.m.(7/5/1010 AR)
Relationship Note on Willow
The thralls you care about should be that reason.
What's the point of words if you're not willing to take necessary action to back them up? No one is proposing a plan. They're just saying 'not now', if they're entertaining the idea at all. Not now, not now. We can't start now. It's too dangerous. It costs too much money to undo what we did. Don't let your feelings get in the way. Let's all dig a hole and pretend that it's okay to say 'not now' and turn our backs not only on these people but also on the potential means of fighting back against the greatest dangers to our civilization. Let's keep pretending the civil option is to keep telling enslaved people 'not now. You have to wait until it's more comfortable' or 'not now, you have to spend decades more of your life like this, and then, if you're still alive by then, then maybe it'll happen. Probably not. But maybe.'
You know what would be a good first step? You know what might make me feel like this and all the other protests that say 'not now' but claim they're the best friends of the people they're saying not now to is a little more than empty words? Thrax could stop allowing new thralls to be made. They could stop raiding villages for new slaves. But I bet you that won't be a popular proposal. I look forward to hearing about how it's not the right time to even stop bringing new people into the system, let alone freeing the ones that are already there.
What's the point of words if you're not willing to take necessary action to back them up? No one is proposing a plan. They're just saying 'not now', if they're entertaining the idea at all. Not now, not now. We can't start now. It's too dangerous. It costs too much money to undo what we did. Don't let your feelings get in the way. Let's all dig a hole and pretend that it's okay to say 'not now' and turn our backs not only on these people but also on the potential means of fighting back against the greatest dangers to our civilization. Let's keep pretending the civil option is to keep telling enslaved people 'not now. You have to wait until it's more comfortable' or 'not now, you have to spend decades more of your life like this, and then, if you're still alive by then, then maybe it'll happen. Probably not. But maybe.'
You know what would be a good first step? You know what might make me feel like this and all the other protests that say 'not now' but claim they're the best friends of the people they're saying not now to is a little more than empty words? Thrax could stop allowing new thralls to be made. They could stop raiding villages for new slaves. But I bet you that won't be a popular proposal. I look forward to hearing about how it's not the right time to even stop bringing new people into the system, let alone freeing the ones that are already there.
Written By Archeron
Feb. 4, 2019, 5:03 a.m.(7/5/1010 AR)
As I write an entry into the Whites in reply to Aleksei Morgan, my mind got me thinking back to comments made that Thralldom debts are fictitious. Some of them represent costs other fealties absorb - those Shav Thralls taken as war prize pay down the cost of bringing that land back to the Compact. Some represent actual debt - failed merchants, traders gone wrong, swindlers, hustlers. Some more represent violent criminality - the debt there is for what they took, the life of a man perhaps, the use of a limb, the sight of an eye, the strength of a hand.
It got me thinking about two things, the first is that in any other fealty many of the final group would be killed - if we liberate Thralls, their sentence then incomplete and no longer valid, shouldn't we then execute them? They still committed the murder or mutilation of the other, justice still must be done for the victim and his family, no? Of course, this group is not the largest group of Thralls, so we should not exaggerate this, but it is an interesting question.
The other is that the Isles is a place where a life has a value. I don't mean to say that other fealties are different. But I mean in this case a quite literal value. People are weighed in silver, and dispensed with in the same fashion. It is hard and cruel. I could tell you of the horrors of the Rebellion, of how we treat one another at war, but I'll spare boring everyone who reads this. Just look up Sir Darrow's history, and know that is a story retold a thousand times, each time with a new cast. But, Thralls were killed alongside the families and house guards of those places that fell. We are told we do not love Thralls. And that's probably true in most cases, some though do become trusted and get access to a better life through it. Some look after our children, I have no doubt some were with my cousins when they were killed. I can remember their faces from my youth as vividly as my father's. It is more complex than Thralls being uncaring and separate.
It would be simple if Thrax were cold unfeeling monsters determined to preserve the suffering of others, and the Mainlanders were arrogant fools who wished to impose their ways with no care, and would take glee in our suffering. The truth is we are all people, seeking to deal with things that are most personal to our lives, most important to our shared community of the compact. We are people who are, in part, the deeds of our forebears. And in this, the traditions collide. And traditions sometimes can be set aside willingly when the prize is worthy enough - one only needs to look at the differing paths chosen by myself and Cousin Reveka when it comes to how we treat Prince Victus to see what a difference it can make. There just needs to be a way to balance the harm and the prize in such a way that the prize outweighs all the harm - I do not see that being possible in the time scale offered. But I'm a simple ranger and much smarter people may be able to make it work.
It got me thinking about two things, the first is that in any other fealty many of the final group would be killed - if we liberate Thralls, their sentence then incomplete and no longer valid, shouldn't we then execute them? They still committed the murder or mutilation of the other, justice still must be done for the victim and his family, no? Of course, this group is not the largest group of Thralls, so we should not exaggerate this, but it is an interesting question.
The other is that the Isles is a place where a life has a value. I don't mean to say that other fealties are different. But I mean in this case a quite literal value. People are weighed in silver, and dispensed with in the same fashion. It is hard and cruel. I could tell you of the horrors of the Rebellion, of how we treat one another at war, but I'll spare boring everyone who reads this. Just look up Sir Darrow's history, and know that is a story retold a thousand times, each time with a new cast. But, Thralls were killed alongside the families and house guards of those places that fell. We are told we do not love Thralls. And that's probably true in most cases, some though do become trusted and get access to a better life through it. Some look after our children, I have no doubt some were with my cousins when they were killed. I can remember their faces from my youth as vividly as my father's. It is more complex than Thralls being uncaring and separate.
It would be simple if Thrax were cold unfeeling monsters determined to preserve the suffering of others, and the Mainlanders were arrogant fools who wished to impose their ways with no care, and would take glee in our suffering. The truth is we are all people, seeking to deal with things that are most personal to our lives, most important to our shared community of the compact. We are people who are, in part, the deeds of our forebears. And in this, the traditions collide. And traditions sometimes can be set aside willingly when the prize is worthy enough - one only needs to look at the differing paths chosen by myself and Cousin Reveka when it comes to how we treat Prince Victus to see what a difference it can make. There just needs to be a way to balance the harm and the prize in such a way that the prize outweighs all the harm - I do not see that being possible in the time scale offered. But I'm a simple ranger and much smarter people may be able to make it work.
Written By Ysbail
Feb. 4, 2019, 4:55 a.m.(7/5/1010 AR)
Relationship Note on Khanne
I'm glad to hear you feel better Lady Khanne, but yes there is always more work to be done regardless. It would be nice to get a break every now and again. Wouldn't it?
Written By Ysbail
Feb. 4, 2019, 4:54 a.m.(7/5/1010 AR)
Relationship Note on Eilonwy
You never cease to amaze me sometimes. Thank you for the work you do for the household.
Written By Ysbail
Feb. 4, 2019, 4:51 a.m.(7/5/1010 AR)
How did Summer get here so fast?
Planning for the Northern Games is slow going but I think we could use the spot of light-hearted cheer and fun of such a set of events! Princess Drea has promised to help with the setup but getting things scheduled and set seems to be the trick.
Maybe a few enterprising souls will volunteer to help run things.
Planning for the Northern Games is slow going but I think we could use the spot of light-hearted cheer and fun of such a set of events! Princess Drea has promised to help with the setup but getting things scheduled and set seems to be the trick.
Maybe a few enterprising souls will volunteer to help run things.
Written By Athaur
Feb. 4, 2019, 4:48 a.m.(7/5/1010 AR)
Relationship Note on Meesha
You are rather splendid at the work though. A better protege could not be asked for.
Written By Ysbail
Feb. 4, 2019, 4:40 a.m.(7/5/1010 AR)
It isn't until it is time to record something in the whites that I realize just how fragile and illusory this sense of peace we have been dealing with is. People write with such passion, spewing bile and venom at anyone who does not think in the exact same fashion that they do out of fear.
None of the options left to us are good ones, there is no choice that does not have some form of serious disadvantage and anyone trying to claim otherwise is trying to sell you something. Passion is good, but it's also dangerous when left untempered by common sense. It is easy to stand on a soapbox telling others what you think they should do. Easy to take the perceived moral high road - and handwave the costs.
If I've learned anything in my time as a Citizen of the Compact it is that very few things are ever what they seem.
In the end, I hardly expect that anyone will read this, or that it will have any impact at all on the lack of civility. But it feels good to get the thought off my chest nonetheless.
None of the options left to us are good ones, there is no choice that does not have some form of serious disadvantage and anyone trying to claim otherwise is trying to sell you something. Passion is good, but it's also dangerous when left untempered by common sense. It is easy to stand on a soapbox telling others what you think they should do. Easy to take the perceived moral high road - and handwave the costs.
If I've learned anything in my time as a Citizen of the Compact it is that very few things are ever what they seem.
In the end, I hardly expect that anyone will read this, or that it will have any impact at all on the lack of civility. But it feels good to get the thought off my chest nonetheless.
Written By Archeron
Feb. 4, 2019, 4:28 a.m.(7/5/1010 AR)
Relationship Note on Aleksei
I don't doubt your sincerity. I don't doubt your conviction. I don't doubt your wisdom in much that you say. I think you would try. I think the Compact would try, because despite our darker demons we are a people that do seem to help one another. Not always for good reasons, and not always together - many of the Isles saw the Kennex failing as an Isles issue, and sailed there under their own flags rather than subsume into a larger effort that might be seen as endorsement of Liberator views - but we do have a remarkable capacity to help.
But I do doubt that even within planning, even with the year that Brass was willing to allow us, you could mitigate this and provide that shipping in the same way. As you say, you led a large navy to deal with the issue last time, and yet you'll need easily over a hundred times that number. A thousand perhaps. Kennex was not even a large population of Thralls for a holding of their size. Some ships will of course suffer to attrition, careless captains, storms, being taken by the remnants of the Gyre's fleets. And that won't help, but the main issue I see is that no amount of planning, in the year or such that you will have, will allow you to mitigate this. It's too large.
And all that might be fine, that might be worth it. I'm certainly not going to defend the morals of Thralldom - but what we are arguing about here is timescale. Steps are underway in the Isles to reform Thralldom - and have been ongoing for a while. Slowly the scope reduces, the worst excesses are ended. In a generation or two, perhaps 50 years from now, I wonder if there will be Thralldom in the Isles even without an overt attempt to end it? But let us be honest, that if we proceed on this, the Compact will - for various reasons - try to help but it will not be enough. If this choice is to be made, let it be made knowing what it is we are choosing.
But I do doubt that even within planning, even with the year that Brass was willing to allow us, you could mitigate this and provide that shipping in the same way. As you say, you led a large navy to deal with the issue last time, and yet you'll need easily over a hundred times that number. A thousand perhaps. Kennex was not even a large population of Thralls for a holding of their size. Some ships will of course suffer to attrition, careless captains, storms, being taken by the remnants of the Gyre's fleets. And that won't help, but the main issue I see is that no amount of planning, in the year or such that you will have, will allow you to mitigate this. It's too large.
And all that might be fine, that might be worth it. I'm certainly not going to defend the morals of Thralldom - but what we are arguing about here is timescale. Steps are underway in the Isles to reform Thralldom - and have been ongoing for a while. Slowly the scope reduces, the worst excesses are ended. In a generation or two, perhaps 50 years from now, I wonder if there will be Thralldom in the Isles even without an overt attempt to end it? But let us be honest, that if we proceed on this, the Compact will - for various reasons - try to help but it will not be enough. If this choice is to be made, let it be made knowing what it is we are choosing.
Written By Willow
Feb. 4, 2019, 4:03 a.m.(7/5/1010 AR)
Literally no one is arguing not to abolish thralldom. Anyone trying to approach tue argument as if that is what is happening is bound to run afoul due to not comprehending the other side on a fundamental level. The argument is not "Let's not do the right thing," the argument is, "How can we do the right thing with a minimum of casualties, suffering, loss, and destabilization?" And so approaching it as if you are the only one in the right and you are trying to convince the other guy to do the right thing too, is bound to end poorly.
The sides here are not "abolish thralldom" vs "don't abolish thralldom".
They are "abolish thralldom NOW regardless of the fallout" vs "accept that building the tools and infrastructure to mitigate a whole lot of people dying and many more lives being totally upset might take a few years. We are actively working toward the goal but understand it will take time.to do it /right/".
The sides here are not "abolish thralldom" vs "don't abolish thralldom".
They are "abolish thralldom NOW regardless of the fallout" vs "accept that building the tools and infrastructure to mitigate a whole lot of people dying and many more lives being totally upset might take a few years. We are actively working toward the goal but understand it will take time.to do it /right/".
Written By Shard
Feb. 4, 2019, 3:01 a.m.(7/5/1010 AR)
Relationship Note on Arik
He never promised he could protect us from everything. He promised he would help us fight the worst enemies that are coming not just for us, but the world, and he would do it by sharing the knowledge and the art that history still remembers him for. Not just building, but teaching. Not sheltering, but helping us to stand. Fear him, sure. Question him, absolutely. But when he says he's /capable/ of giving us weapons to fight what's coming, I give you my solemn word that he is not lying.
Written By Peri
Feb. 4, 2019, 2:26 a.m.(7/5/1010 AR)
Relationship Note on Brass
House Seliki has experience in settling thralls who reach our shores and will not be found unprepared for whatever decisions the Compact makes. We will share our knowledge with other Houses. Learn from us.
But what of Brass? I would like to know what experience he has with this and what we can learn from him. Have anyone of you discovered what specific plans he has for handling the freeing of slaves? I am confused by contradictory claims. I also hear that he has demands for how serfs shall be treated. Has he written histories for us to consult? I would like to read these in order to gain the knowledge for House Seliki.
But what of Brass? I would like to know what experience he has with this and what we can learn from him. Have anyone of you discovered what specific plans he has for handling the freeing of slaves? I am confused by contradictory claims. I also hear that he has demands for how serfs shall be treated. Has he written histories for us to consult? I would like to read these in order to gain the knowledge for House Seliki.
Written By Niklas
Feb. 4, 2019, 2:14 a.m.(7/5/1010 AR)
Relationship Note on Cerdensulathara
Are we ranking friends? Is that a thing we're doing now?
Obviously Sabella is my best friend, followed shortly by some dead people, but then...
1) Four way tie between Oswyn Spencer, Lord Alessandro Greenmarch, Lady Margret Greenmarch, Sir Jeffeth Bayweather.
2) Playwright Bastien, who remains the second finest playwright in the city.
3) Almost everyone else I meet because I love making friends!
Obviously Sabella is my best friend, followed shortly by some dead people, but then...
1) Four way tie between Oswyn Spencer, Lord Alessandro Greenmarch, Lady Margret Greenmarch, Sir Jeffeth Bayweather.
2) Playwright Bastien, who remains the second finest playwright in the city.
3) Almost everyone else I meet because I love making friends!
Written By Peri
Feb. 4, 2019, 2:12 a.m.(7/5/1010 AR)
Relationship Note on Andry
Andry,
I do not understand why obtaining agreements to free slaves would count as breaking the rule of law. If the agreements are lawful contracts, then where is the breakdown in law?
I do not understand why obtaining agreements to free slaves would count as breaking the rule of law. If the agreements are lawful contracts, then where is the breakdown in law?
Written By Bliss
Feb. 4, 2019, 2:07 a.m.(7/5/1010 AR)
Relationship Note on Thena
While I appreciate the offer, there are a number of us here who would be heartbroken if little Flopsy were to leave. He is a source of great amusement.
Largely because of how loudly I end up yelling.
Largely because of how loudly I end up yelling.
Written By Andry
Feb. 4, 2019, 1:24 a.m.(7/5/1010 AR)
Relationship Note on Aleksei
I've been given to understand that the first liberator Aleksei Morgan has written to clarify that he believes freeing thralls does not have to be an attack on civilization if you do it in good faith and through law and in that case I agree. I don't know why so little work has been done in that direction in our recorded history but it should definitely be something that can be done while limiting the potential consequences. Law is the fidelity between Limerance and Gild, not slavery.
It would be foolish of me to pretend to be an expert in matters of law or the best way to legally give men and women the freedom that they deserve, but I worry when I read statements that the Knight of Brass expects it done in a period of one year because when you're trying to do something fast and on a strict deadline, you're likely to take shortcuts and if this project is to be embarked upon it deserves to be done right.
I wish the first liberator all the best in his efforts, his cause is a worthy one and the difficulty of doing it right means he deserves and requires support from all of those who can offer it.
It would be foolish of me to pretend to be an expert in matters of law or the best way to legally give men and women the freedom that they deserve, but I worry when I read statements that the Knight of Brass expects it done in a period of one year because when you're trying to do something fast and on a strict deadline, you're likely to take shortcuts and if this project is to be embarked upon it deserves to be done right.
I wish the first liberator all the best in his efforts, his cause is a worthy one and the difficulty of doing it right means he deserves and requires support from all of those who can offer it.
Written By Sophie
Feb. 4, 2019, 12:34 a.m.(7/5/1010 AR)
Relationship Note on Bliss
Some people, when you meet them you find yourself engulfed by them and you want nothing more to be in their very presence.
And then... they make you look so deeply at yourself and your own soul that it helps you to become the person you were meant to be.
You may still want to drown in them, but you can't - because you realize that you have to take action to make the world a better place. You have purpose.
These people are truly invaluable.
And then... they make you look so deeply at yourself and your own soul that it helps you to become the person you were meant to be.
You may still want to drown in them, but you can't - because you realize that you have to take action to make the world a better place. You have purpose.
These people are truly invaluable.
Written By Draven
Feb. 4, 2019, 12:23 a.m.(7/5/1010 AR)
There is an overabundance of Fluffy commentary in the whites lately. My favored argument here has been that to argue against someone's argument makes you a fool, rather than a free thinker. I don't know about the politics of much of anything, nor do I care to know.
Anyway, where can someone find an exceptional deal on Fireweave these days?
Anyway, where can someone find an exceptional deal on Fireweave these days?
Written By Aleksei
Feb. 4, 2019, midnight(7/5/1010 AR)
Relationship Note on Andry
Sorry, maybe I wasn't clear. When I said that thrall debt is "made up," I mean that the number is made up when it's decided on. This isn't actual money that the thrall owes to another person, that they were lent and need to pay back. It's a number made up to represent their supposed "debt," generally inflated to a particularly high number in order to keep them in that state of debt for as long as possible. _That's_ what I mean by made up. The collective debt of thralldom in the Mourning Isles isn't an amount of money that these individuals owe some person or house or group: it's a number made up by people with incentive to make it as high as they can get away with. That's what I mean.
I do know the records by Palladium you're referring to, and I think the important part is right there in what he wrote. "Tearing up." "Bad-faith dealing." That is: if you do the work to put this stuff into law, to build it into civilization, it doesn't have to be an overthrow or an _attack_ on civilization. And I think that people are starting to spread word that there's no way to deal with thralldom that isn't going to strengthen certain darker concepts in the world, and I think that's a really huge assumption on their part. And that stating it as plain fact is _literally harmful_ to the world. So. That's why I brought it up to address it.
I do know the records by Palladium you're referring to, and I think the important part is right there in what he wrote. "Tearing up." "Bad-faith dealing." That is: if you do the work to put this stuff into law, to build it into civilization, it doesn't have to be an overthrow or an _attack_ on civilization. And I think that people are starting to spread word that there's no way to deal with thralldom that isn't going to strengthen certain darker concepts in the world, and I think that's a really huge assumption on their part. And that stating it as plain fact is _literally harmful_ to the world. So. That's why I brought it up to address it.
Written By Jennyva
Feb. 3, 2019, 11:58 p.m.(7/5/1010 AR)
Relationship Note on Duarte
Here, here.
Written By Ysbail
Feb. 3, 2019, 11:55 p.m.(7/5/1010 AR)
Relationship Note on Domonico
Lord, I feel like you are deep down a rather mischevious soul.
Please note that the scholars may take some time preparing your journal for others to read.